UK - "Third World outside London" according to Irvine Welsh
- Thread starter Redwurzel
- Start date
I can only see his quotes on nightlife reflecting third world status. I think we just have different lives to our children. Clubbing and booze was a big part of my life. I loved it. It's not as big a part of theirs.
I think we certainly aren't thriving as a nation presently. I think Scottish independence, as with Brexit aren't the answers though. I think these changes create chaos rather than sunlit uplands.
Wealthy people benefit from chaos, not the little man.
I think we certainly aren't thriving as a nation presently. I think Scottish independence, as with Brexit aren't the answers though. I think these changes create chaos rather than sunlit uplands.
Wealthy people benefit from chaos, not the little man.
Ironops
Well-known member
Fully agree - politicians blaming immigration and asylum seekers while funnelling all the money to their mates and hey presto, you have a riot on your hands!
Redwurzel
Well-known member
I would have liked to see them have fully independence, partly because they are currently subsidised by the rest of the UK, through additionally funding for their public services.
I agree Welsh has focused on clubbing. Leeds is not economically depressed and has had a lot of investment.
IW does like to get a bit of attention through controversial statements. I do think he would quite enjoy FMTTM in short bursts.
I agree Welsh has focused on clubbing. Leeds is not economically depressed and has had a lot of investment.
IW does like to get a bit of attention through controversial statements. I do think he would quite enjoy FMTTM in short bursts.
Centralscrutinizer
Well-known member
If he'd said like the Second World I'd be in agreement 
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
Teesside isn't economically depressed for many either.
Like Leeds, and elsewhere across the country, there are areas badly savaged by Neo Liberalism in each location.
Is clubbing still a thing for the younger crowd, or have they moved on to the full home entertainment package?
I noticed, because I like going to pubs, that few youngsters share the same places as old folks, a change since my youth. Towns were littered with clubs and dances back then. Are they still a thing?
Norton_Nomad
Active member
There’s parts of Scotland, particularly Edinburgh, that are far better off economically than some parts of London where poverty rates are over 25% in some places. It’s not really as black and white as he’s making out geographically.
The_Lizards_Jumpers
Well-known member
To be fair I dont think he's lived in the UK for many years spending most of his time ini Dublin, Chicago and Miami - not sure if he's back in London or Edinburgh now though?
Redwurzel
Well-known member
Didn't he live in the Dam in the 1990s too?
I do take what he says with a little pinch of salt - there was a hint of anti-Westminster anti-Brexit, and wasn't it all better when I was 30 than when I am 60.
It is really buzzing a lot more in Dublin than Edinburgh and was it the other way round in 1994?
Based on what others have commented on here - Teesside is much quieter now than it was in 1994 except for the odd riot and anti social antics in Hemlington etc
I do take what he says with a little pinch of salt - there was a hint of anti-Westminster anti-Brexit, and wasn't it all better when I was 30 than when I am 60.
It is really buzzing a lot more in Dublin than Edinburgh and was it the other way round in 1994?
Based on what others have commented on here - Teesside is much quieter now than it was in 1994 except for the odd riot and anti social antics in Hemlington etc
exeterboro
Well-known member
Most places in the UK are subsidised by London/ SouthEast it's not just Scotland. You could argue that to get away from this situation , where jobs and businesses head to the south you might need some short term pain to become economically boyoant like Ireland has, where they are able to draw businesses and jobs in again on their terms.
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
The impression I get of Ireland these days, which is backed up by these numbers for instance, is that there’s an even bigger imbalance between the capital and the rest than there is in the UK.
exeterboro
Well-known member
According to the London Chamber of Commerce for every £10 the treasury receives £4 of it comes from the Greater London area despite only having 13% of the UKs population. I imagine if you put the surrounding areas of the South East into the reckoning then the imbalance will become even more pronounced despite the increased population. Forgive my basic reckoning ( and apologies if I am wrong) but if the country is running a defect on what it takes in to what it pays out then it most likely that it is the London and South East Area which is keeping the rest of the country a float. But that could be because the central government has not helped in this situation by not trying to take steps to address it, and Scotland in the long run could benefit from independence. but obviously it wouldn't be perfect and you might end up with a situation where Glasgow has the same pull in Scotland has Dublin has in Ireland.
Pretty sure those numbers are somewhat skewed by the fact that companies with a head office in London is counted as London even though none of the productive work happens there.
Also, a huge amount comes from banking and finance and those things happen in the city but it's a relatively tiny amount of people involved in those industries and could easily be moved to anywhere else.
BoroMart
Well-known member
To be fair 25 years ago was a better existence for 95% of people than today
BoroMart
Well-known member
That's one way to look at it, another is to say the rest of the country provides the brain power to drive the London economy, most of the people who get good education outside london end up working in and around london. It couldn't survive with it's current economic success without importing that brain power from the rest of the country.
exeterboro
Well-known member
I don't disagree with you , Economics is an area I don't really get involved in , but to go back to the point that interested me and got me involved in this thread , are all these figures skewed and maybe Scotland in reality is not being subsidised by the rest of the UK. The precence of a global capital city makes it difficult to give true readings for other areas?
exeterboro
Well-known member
Don't disagree with this as well, but maybe what I would say is it not only draws them from the Uk but from everywhere else as well. Also at the same time it keeps people in the UK who might go to other centres of their expertise around the world?
BoroMart
Well-known member
It does but it certainly is a brain drain on the rest of the Uk
Redwurzel
Well-known member
Scotland gets extra UK public funding through the Barnett Formula - which gives them extra public money for say health and social care. They said they needed it because of their geography and extra social problems. In reality in was started in the late 1970s to appease Scottish Politicians who said the new North Sea Oil revenue should be spent in Scotland and thus stop an independence movement. The formula is still in place even though North Sea Oil production is much less.
Scotland also has a separate education system from England and Wales and the same for legal system which I expects generates extra cost.
There is also a separate civil service called the Scottish Office and Scottish Parliament to fund.
Scotland also has a separate education system from England and Wales and the same for legal system which I expects generates extra cost.
There is also a separate civil service called the Scottish Office and Scottish Parliament to fund.
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It would help if government departments moved to different parts of the country. That would give a boost to local economies. Government investment in crucial industries such as steel, power, transport.