Tier 2 rules

[jam69]

Does anyone really understand them, especially the pubs and restaurants, drove down linthorpe Rd last night saw many places with groups that couldn't really be from same household. Isnt that against the rules?

 

[atypical_boro]

Does anyone really understand them, especially the pubs and restaurants, drove down linthorpe Rd last night saw many places with groups that couldn't really be from same household. Isnt that against the rules?

This is why the rules are now virtually meaningless. They're spending all this time negotiating whose in what tier, but the reality is people are only going to do what they are willing to do.

 

[Cardiffdaffs]

This is why the rules are now virtually meaningless. They're spending all this time negotiating whose in what tier, but the reality is people are only going to do what they are willing to do.

Lots of business lunches going on - obviously.

 

[A]

there was a story from Sunday about 12 lads from a South Shields footy team who were all in the pub together and when the bar staff challenged them, they claimed to all be from the same household. Obviously unconvinced, the bar staff reported the breach of regs. they have all been fined £200 (£100 if paid within 14 days)

whilst many people will just do what they want, you have to be at least vaguely subtle about it. i wont lie that i'm whiter than white about these restrictions, if it happens that i bump into friends at the same time in the same pub at the next tables, then so be it, but at least we sit at separate tables, so i suppose technically we're not breaking any rules

 

[atypical_boro]

there was a story from Sunday about 12 lads from a South Shields footy team who were all in the pub together and when the bar staff challenged them, they claimed to all be from the same household. Obviously unconvinced, the bar staff reported the breach of regs. they have all been fined £200 (£100 if paid within 14 days)

whilst many people will just do what they want, you have to be at least vaguely subtle about it. i wont lie that i'm whiter than white about these restrictions, if it happens that i bump into friends at the same time in the same pub at the next tables, then so be it, but at least we sit at separate tables, so i suppose technically we're not breaking any rules

They'll make the odd example, but how a depleted police force can actually enforce all of this I have no idea. And it will only get worse as winter wears on and Christmas comes etc.

Imagine what things could be like come 'Blue Monday'.

 

[parmoboy]

I'll openly admit I went to Spoons last night with my mate. We were half-expecting to be challenged after entering and if we had have been we would have happily left but we were just told to sign in using the covid app and to use the Wetherspoons app for ordering.

I did notice there was clearly others in there who weren't from the same household. One group of 4 sat near us who clearly looked as though they were two couples.

 

[Cardiffdaffs]

I can imagine Spoons is lax. In London went past the German Gymnasium at Kings Cross St Pancras yesterday and that had obvious mixing. Looked like business lunch crowd which as we were told by Dowden this week is ok. Fact is there is little difference between you having a pint with your mate and Steve the sales rep having a chicken snitzel and Bavarian beer with his clients

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

I'll openly admit I went to Spoons last night with my mate. We were half-expecting to be challenged after entering and if we had have been we would have happily left but we were just told to sign in using the covid app and to use the Wetherspoons app for ordering.

I did notice there was clearly others in there who weren't from the same household. One group of 4 sat near us who clearly looked as though they were two couples.

So you know the rules/guidance but are quite happy to ignore them?

 

[atypical_boro]

I can imagine Spoons is lax. In London went past the German Gymnasium at Kings Cross St Pancras yesterday and that had obvious mixing. Looked like business lunch crowd which as we were told by Dowden this week is ok. Fact is there is little difference between you having a pint with your mate and Steve the sales rep having a chicken snitzel and Bavarian beer with his clients

Keeping the economy afloat though innit. Maintaining one's mental health by meeting a mate once in a blue moon is illegal here in Manchester as of tomorrow, soon to follow in Tees Valley. Not guidance, its AGAINST THE LAW.

 

[parmoboy]

So you know the rules/guidance but are quite happy to ignore them?

There will be many others doing the same. You are going to be mixing with others from different households anyway when you have to get up and move around the venue.

You're mixing with the bar staff when they bring your food and drink over to the table. There isn't a system in place of only one person allowed to use the toilet facilities at one time, so you have a situation where many are mixing there.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

There will be many others doing the same. It's a silly rule anyway when you consider that ultimately you are going to be mixing with others from different households anyway when you have to get up and move around the venue.

You're mixing with the bar staff when they bring your food and drink over to the table. There isn't a system in place of only one person allowed to use the toilet facilities at one time, so you have a situation where many are mixing then.

Yes but you knew you weren't following the rules?

When bar staff drop drinks off at the table you are not mixing with them, they are there a few moments and that's it.
When you are moving around the venue you are not mixing with other people and should be wearing a mask.
Venues should have a system in place to prevent mixing in toilets.

"There will be many others doing the same" and that's partly why the virus is spreading. Non compliance.

Some people think speed limits are a silly rule and drive at 30mph on 20mph roads. Is that acceptable because they think it's a silly rule?

 

[atypical_boro]

Yes but you knew you weren't following the rules?

When bar staff drop drinks off at the table you are not mixing with them, they are there a few moments and that's it.
When you are moving around the venue you are not mixing with other people and should be wearing a mask.
Venues should have a system in place to prevent mixing in toilets.

"There will be many others doing the same" and that's partly why the virus is spreading. Non compliance.

Some people think speed limits are a silly rule and drive at 30mph on 20mph roads. Is that acceptable because they think it's a silly rule?

Its a bit like the green debate though, isn't it? If everyone did everything they possibly could, everything would correct itself.

But in practical terms, people are only going to do what they're willing to do within reason. The virus isn't just spreading because of non-compliance, its also just because humans are human. Dominic Cummings being a prime example of a 'human' (though not according to Spitting Image).

 

[parmoboy]

Yes but you knew you weren't following the rules?

When bar staff drop drinks off at the table you are not mixing with them, they are there a few moments and that's it.
When you are moving around the venue you are not mixing with other people and should be wearing a mask.
Venues should have a system in place to prevent mixing in toilets.

"There will be many others doing the same" and that's partly why the virus is spreading. Non compliance.

Some people think speed limits are a silly rule and drive at 30mph on 20mph roads. Is that acceptable because they think it's a silly rule?

I did wear my mask when I moved around the venue but even then there is a debate as to how effective the mask actually is in preventing the spread.

To be honest, it was a last minute decision to meet my friend last night. It's the first time I've done it since the measures were put in place and I won't be doing it again but to be honest I think they might as well have just closed the pubs, as I know you obviously disagree but I still feel you are mixing with others from different households inside the venue.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

Its a bit like the green debate though, isn't it? If everyone did everything they possibly could, everything would correct itself.

But in practical terms, people are only going to do what they're willing to do within reason. The virus isn't just spreading because of non-compliance, its also just because humans are human. Dominic Cummings being a prime example of a 'human' (though not according to Spitting Image).

I did say "partly why the virus is spreading"

At the end of the day the rules are there to be followed.

Is it acceptable for students to have 40 people in a house party or a wedding firm to allow a 100 guests just because "people are only going to do what they're willing to do within reason" - What if that logic applied to everything?

 

[atypical_boro]

I did say "partly why the virus is spreading"

At the end of the day the rules are there to be followed.

Is it acceptable for students to have 40 people in a house party or a wedding firm to allow a 100 guests just because "people are only going to do what they're willing to do within reason" - What if that logic applied to everything?

The leadership have to work out the way forward in pragmatic terms, not in theoretical terms. 18 year olds are going to behave like 18 year olds whether we like it or not. Its easy to condemn when you're not 18.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

The leadership have to work out the way forward in pragmatic terms, not in theoretical terms. 18 year olds are going to behave like 18 year olds whether we like it or not. Its easy to condemn when you're not 18.

Doesn't matter what the "leadership" do if individuals won't comply with the most simple & basic of rules just because they don't want to. Not because they can't or don't understand, they just choose not to for their own benefit.

I'd love to go and meet up with some mates but we choose not to because its the right thing to do.

 

[Randy]

They'll make the odd example, but how a depleted police force can actually enforce all of this I have no idea. And it will only get worse as winter wears on and Christmas comes etc.

Imagine what things could be like come 'Blue Monday'.

A good example will be pubs out in the middle of nowhere. Not saying any will flout the rules but do we seriously expect to see the police up and around the Moors for example in the middle of December with snow on the ground looking for people breaking the rules in pubs?

 

[atypical_boro]

Doesn't matter what the "leadership" do if individuals won't comply with the most simple & basic of rules

Well it still matters what the leadership do, its their job, unless they aren't cut out for it. I disagree that they are 'simple' though. The 'hands/face/space' stuff is simple, the rest of it isn't.

A good example will be pubs out in the middle of nowhere. Not saying any will flout the rules but do we seriously expect to see the police up and around the Moors for example in the middle of December with snow on the ground looking for people breaking the rules in pubs?

If they do, I fully expect proper (lets say more traditional) crimes to soar in the towns, cities and suburbs.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

Well it still matters what the leadership do, its their job, unless they aren't cut out for it. I disagree that they are 'simple' though. The 'hands/face/space' stuff is simple, the rest of it isn't.


If they do, I fully expect proper (lets say more traditional) crimes to soar in the towns, cities and suburbs.

I'd argue that's its well understood you aren't allowed to meet up with people outside of your household in pubs and thats the issue I'm discussing in this thread. The person in question knew he was in the wrong by going out for a drink with his mate.

 

[atypical_boro]

I'd argue that's its well understood you aren't allowed to meet up with people outside of your household in pubs and thats the issue I'm discussing in this thread. The person in question knew he was in the wrong by going out for a drink with his mate.

Whilst that rule is 'reasonably' clear, I also think its difficult to judge others for doing it. You never know the circumstances. I'm sure if you had a mate who was at their wit's end with mental health related problems, or SAD, or personal tragedy, or whatever else, you might consider pushing the boundaries and 'accidentally' being in the same pub at the same time as them (which is perfectly allowed by the way).