I think scrote does see it as an insult as centrists think they can "walk two paths" at the same time, and politics "doesn't work like that". That's a view that centrism is irrational in some way, that would be an insult, or at the very least a snear at it.So have I got this right?
Centrist isn't an insult.
Lessofthelip doesn't regard it as an insult.
Scrote didn't use it as an insult.
Less of the lip is proud to be a centrist.
Scrote isn't a hypocrite after all.
Politics and ideology is always a percentage played. Nobody follows *lFar left wing or Far Right wing* ideology to its full extent in this country. Its like vegans /vegetarians or religious people, they embrace the concept as best they can. But don't have the confidence to live it full on.I think scrote does see it as an insult as centrists think they can "walk two paths" at the same time, and politics "doesn't work like that". That's a view that centrism is irrational in some way, that would be an insult, or at the very least a snear at it.
As I said, political views aren't as binary as that. It's a rainbow of values and views, it's not even a straight linear spectrum more of a grid of colours and views. Some people occupy the fringes of that grid with ideolisms and lack of pragmatism, centrists stay away from the edges.
Centrism is a flawed concept for the political theorists.I don't think - feel that Scrote is a hypocrite in any shape or form. I'm a centrist, but I would imagine Scrote and yourself have centrist views in a good part of your way of life outlook and day to day living.
That's some leap BBG. The accusation of hypocrisy was to do with belittling someone on a public message board, not whether the giver or the recipient of the message considered it to be insulting.So have I got this right?
Centrist isn't an insult.
Lessofthelip doesn't regard it as an insult.
Scrote didn't use it as an insult.
Less of the lip is proud to be a centrist.
Scrote isn't a hypocrite after all.
But is this not to assume that those not in the centre must be at the extremes? People on the left cannot be said to lack pragmatism just because they are left of centre.Some people occupy the fringes of that grid with ideolisms and lack of pragmatism, centrists stay away from the edges.
Exactly. On this board extremists are scarce if they exist at all, but people still casually drop in labels like hard left, extreme left or in the case of one or two posters, loony left when a simple 'left' would be more accurate.Politics and ideology is always a percentage played. Nobody follows *lFar left wing or Far Right wing* ideology to its full extent in this country.
"To try and lump them all together with some kind of algorithm to come up with description is just daft - how on earth do you average your beliefs?"Centrism is a flawed concept for the political theorists.
People believe in certain things for whatever reason.
To try and lump them all together with some kind of algorithm to come up with description is just daft - how on earth do you average your beliefs?
I was just being light hearted amongst all the toing and froing.That's some leap BBG. The accusation of hypocrisy was to do with belittling someone on a public message board, not whether the giver or the recipient of the message considered it to be insulting.
So after 24 hours of thread inactivity Scrote took exception to HolgateCorner's description of SuperStu's opinions on a particular matter as "conspiracy theories" (I'm sure HC was being light-hearted btw), calling HC's comments "belittling nonsense".
Scrote later admitted that his comments "The tribalism that centrist-central are displaying with regards Starmer and Labour........" was indeed meant to be patronising.
So "belittling", "condescending", "patronising" are all the kind of speech which is a passive-aggressive approach to giving someone a verbal put-down while maintaining a facade of reasonableness or friendliness.
On certain issues I can be a hypocrite and I'll freely admit to it. The worst type of hypocrites are the ones who won't/can't.
You need to work harder at that then, make it more obvious to centristsI was just being light hearted amongst all the toing and froing.
Or dropping in labels like Tory-light, Starmerites, centrist-central etc. when a simple "centre-left" would be more appropriate.but people still casually drop in labels like hard left, extreme left or in the case of one or two posters, loony left when a simple 'left' would be more accurate.
Personally I consider centrism a rejection of ideology, in the same way that atheism is a rejection of religious ideology.Centrism is a flawed concept for the political theorists.
People believe in certain things for whatever reason.
To try and lump them all together with some kind of algorithm to come up with description is just daft - how on earth do you average your beliefs?
But any form of agreed fair or enforced taxation is a form of socialism, even to the most ardent right wing political person. I say I'm a centrist because I don't want blanket nationalisation and I want the freedom to express myself and do whatever legal means allow (normally I call them dreams and no political party owns those things)But is this not to assume that those not in the centre must be at the extremes? People on the left cannot be said to lack pragmatism just because they are left of centre.
Exactly. On this board extremists are scarce if they exist at all, but people still casually drop in labels like hard left, extreme left or in the case of one or two posters, loony left when a simple 'left' would be more accurate.
Centrists are pragmatic and the opposite of extremist. It could never be an insult to me.
No he very didn't.Scrote later admitted that his comments "The tribalism that centrist-central are displaying with regards Starmer and Labour........" was indeed meant to be patronising.
The problem is the complete lack of any political definition of these terms on this board. I consider myself to be left-wing and I look at what you and BoroMart and others post and from where I'm sat it looks very centre-right at the very best.Or dropping in labels like Tory-light, Starmerites, centrist-central etc. when a simple "centre-left" would be more appropriate.
This makes no sense.Personally I consider centrism a rejection of ideology, in the same way that atheism is a rejection of religious ideology.
Neither do I, so does that make me a centrist?I don't believe in the idea of unfettered capitalism, and absolute libertarianism on the right, and I don't believe in the economics of absolute communism and social control on the left.
I don't see it as an insult. I just don't see it in the same way you do. Firstly, the vast majority of self-declared centrists that I know end up having fairly traditional Liberal politics. A bit of social empathy and a bit of free-market self-help. They generally, in my view, fail to see the priviliges that have allowed them to hold those views with impunity (until the Tories wreck everything and suddenly we need them replacing).I think scrote does see it as an insult as centrists think they can "walk two paths" at the same time, and politics "doesn't work like that". That's a view that centrism is irrational in some way, that would be an insult, or at the very least a snear at it.
Surely the whole point of the political process is to set the legal framework to allow or disallow things based on ideological ideas?But any form of agreed fair or enforced taxation is a form of socialism, even to the most ardent right wing political person. I say I'm a centrist because I don't want blanket nationalisation and I want the freedom to express myself and do whatever legal means allow (normally I call them dreams and no political party owns those things)
That's socialism, not centrism.I want to see society benefiting by having a Govt tax payer managed all inclusive NHS, Utilities, Commuting Working Public Transport system, etc that works for us all.
Now that is nonsense you have spouted . I think we have what I listed to a degree already, just the Tories like to cut back on everything good for society I've paid tax on that help build.Surely the whole point of the political process is to set the legal framework to allow or disallow things based on ideological ideas?
If you're being prevented from fulfilling your dreams by the legal framework then you can vote for politicians that promise to revoke those laws.
Do you want to run through town with a shotgun? Vote for the We All Love Guns Party.
You want to own a hippopotamus? Join the Animals For All Party.
That's socialism, not centrism.
Cameron, when push came to shove was a right winger in centrist clothing. Never really a centristHave to say I disagree here mind.
Through my adult life there's never been a time where the people who think of themselves as 'centrists' have been particularly pragmatic about politics. Consider the way Cameron sold his policies (there is no alternative), the hardline position centrists took after the EU ref wanting the result to just be overturned or rerun, the sabotage during Corbyn's leadership of the Labour Party...
Heck even recently on here I've seen centrists lamenting Ed Miliband winning the leadership over David. 14 years ago and people still haven't come to terms with that. Hardly pragmatic, even though Ed was incredibly accommodating to the right of the party.
You may point to the Lib Dems abandoning all their policies after 2010 and Starmer going back on all his pledges since 2020 BUT I don't think this can truly be called pragmatism as its always in the same direction. None of these policies become more left wing over time or in response to events. Its less to do with pragmatism and more a gravitational effect.
I'm not even necessarily blaming the individuals involved that this happens. Its pretty natural I suppose. We all see our media as pulling to the right, so if you start off with a political leader that's somewhere in the centre, why are they going to put any time/effort/reputation into holding firm with a leftwing policy? But it's not pragmatism to abandon these policies. It's not an unemotional search for what policy would have the actual best outcome. It's just following the path of least resistance.
I need to know more about this!!You want to own a hippopotamus? Join the Animals For All Party.
Me too.I need to know more about this!!