This day 1958 its that man Cloughy again

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
My Dad had Clough in his all time top three Boro players -

Mannion, Clough, Juninho.

I think that says a lot about Clough.

Mannion was a great for England in an era which was brimming with talent.

Juninho won 50 odd caps for Brazil and played in a World Cup winning team.

He said Clough was the best striker he ever saw.

As an aside Cloughie lived around the corner from my auntie in Grove Hill and used to be up in the middle of the night to help her with the milk round when he was a kid, no wonder he stood no nonsense from the players when he was a manager.
 

Rishworthian

Active member
Interesting Holgate, I don't think I'd argue much with your dad over those three and I'd probably agree with him about Clough being the best striker.

What made him special ? I've asked my self the same question a thousand times. For a man who was not a good header of a ball his record is even more remarkable.

He always seem to know exactly where the goal was and be able to direct the ball within the posts. I lost count of the number of times he took a ball coming up to him with his back to goal and turned and shot in one movement without having brought the ball under control. I know that sounds impossible but it isn't. He'd made up his mind whilst the ball was approaching and acted when it reached him or maybe even slightly before.

Against Fulham he'd taken the ball out of the area and was tight on the byline turned and swiveled all in one movement to curve the ball round the keeper who'd followed him and into the back of the net. Just think about that as a possible scenario

I'd probably class that as the best goal he ever scored and the only thing I've ever seen that rivalled it for the best Boro goal ever was Marvin Emnes at Morecambe in preseason when he performed two pirouettes and went right across the penalty area from right to left and then scored to the right post with his right foot
 

asredastheycome

Well-known member
Brian Clough went on to score 11 hattricks, 5 different games when he bagged 4 goals & 5 in one game, Brightons 1st ever 2nd division match
That Brighton game was the first my Mam and Dad took me to. Only 4 so don't remember much/anything about it.
 

asredastheycome

Well-known member
Just looking through my book, Brian Clough played in two football league representatives games, scoring in a 1-1 draw at Ibrox in 58 & as mentioned, all 5 in a 5-0 win over the Irish league in 59, he earlier played for the FA XI v the Army in 57 scoring 5 goals in a 6-3 win & England B team v Scotland, scored a goal in a 4-1 win at St Andrews

Never played for the England youth
Read a great story years ago in I think Charles Buchans Football Monthly about that game where Clough got 5 against Irish League. All the goals came in second half if I remember correctly. The story came from John Connelly who was then playing for Burnley in the then Division 1. Connelly said when they came off at half time Cough said to him you aren't putting the ball in right for me. Connelly thought something along the lines of "who the hell does he think he is" coming from Middlesbrough in 2nd Division. Anyway when they started the second half he thought ok I'll give him it how he wants it and see what he can do with it. Cloughie scores. Same thing again Clough scores. Can't remember how many Connelly made but he said every time we put it like he told us too he scored.
 

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
Interesting Holgate, I don't think I'd argue much with your dad over those three and I'd probably agree with him about Clough being the best striker.

What made him special ? I've asked my self the same question a thousand times. For a man who was not a good header of a ball his record is even more remarkable.

He always seem to know exactly where the goal was and be able to direct the ball within the posts. I lost count of the number of times he took a ball coming up to him with his back to goal and turned and shot in one movement without having brought the ball under control. I know that sounds impossible but it isn't. He'd made up his mind whilst the ball was approaching and acted when it reached him or maybe even slightly before.

Against Fulham he'd taken the ball out of the area and was tight on the byline turned and swiveled all in one movement to curve the ball round the keeper who'd followed him and into the back of the net. Just think about that as a possible scenario

I'd probably class that as the best goal he ever scored and the only thing I've ever seen that rivalled it for the best Boro goal ever was Marvin Emnes at Morecambe in preseason when he performed two pirouettes and went right across the penalty area from right to left and then scored to the right post with his right foot
Thanks for that Rishworthian.

My Dad was Boro through and through, Middlesbrough, Teesside, North
Yorkshire, and everything about it, he bled it, it was just a way of life for him but he was the most critical Boro fan you could meet.

He thought the second division was below the club. He thought Hickton didn’t put a full shift in every match. He thought Schwarzer didn’t command the box enough. He didn‘t rate Downing at all, and I mean at all.

But he thought the Robson era with all it‘s international stars was marvellous, he loved Rav, he thought Emerson was on a different level, Karembeau, Zenden, Ziege, Boateng, Jimmy, Viduka and the rest - fantastic, he loved it. And he loved Juninho and his unbelievable skill with the ball.

So for him to single out Clough from that second division era, it really did mean something. He thought Clough was the best striker he had ever seen playing for anybody, Boro or opposition. Never seen anybody put the ball away like him, just as you describe above.

I‘m too young for Clough as a player, my memory is the colourful Derby and Forest manager who achieved miracles with modest clubs.

But my Dad saw the player and I wish I had, there is very little footage of Clough unfortunately.

Thanks for sharing your memories Rishworthian, it just backs up what my Dad told me, we must keep the memory of our great players alive as best we can 👍
 

Erimus74

Well-known member
Another two from Cloughy this day 1961, his penultimate home game, when bagging both our goals in 2-1 win over Luton Town
 

Erimus74

Well-known member
Thanks for that Rishworthian.

My Dad was Boro through and through, Middlesbrough, Teesside, North
Yorkshire, and everything about it, he bled it, it was just a way of life for him but he was the most critical Boro fan you could meet.

He thought the second division was below the club. He thought Hickton didn’t put a full shift in every match. He thought Schwarzer didn’t command the box enough. He didn‘t rate Downing at all, and I mean at all.

But he thought the Robson era with all it‘s international stars was marvellous, he loved Rav, he thought Emerson was on a different level, Karembeau, Zenden, Ziege, Boateng, Jimmy, Viduka and the rest - fantastic, he loved it. And he loved Juninho and his unbelievable skill with the ball.

So for him to single out Clough from that second division era, it really did mean something. He thought Clough was the best striker he had ever seen playing for anybody, Boro or opposition. Never seen anybody put the ball away like him, just as you describe above.

I‘m too young for Clough as a player, my memory is the colourful Derby and Forest manager who achieved miracles with modest clubs.

But my Dad saw the player and I wish I had, there is very little footage of Clough unfortunately.

Thanks for sharing your memories Rishworthian, it just backs up what my Dad told me, we must keep the memory of our great players alive as best we can 👍
Nice story Holgate & nice story to remember your dad with
 

Wilf

Well-known member
  • Bill Shankly “Laddie, that man scored 200 goals in 270 matches – an incredible record – and he has won cup after cup as a manager. When he talks, pin back your ears.” about Brian Clough
 

Rishworthian

Active member
The Robson era was interesting Holgate but I have to disagree on Rav. As a striker you need a man who will score the goal that makes the difference against a good side. Rav was never that man. He scored a lot of goals against poor/er opposition but very rarely against sides where he could make a difference.

I thought the most interesting comment on Juninho was by Mannion. He said he'd be more effective if he passed the ball a bit sooner. Mannion was regarded by many as the finest player of his generation. His contempories have been known to comment that they like playing with him as he made them look better. I only caught the tail - end of his career and I'm not sure I saw the best of him live

I liked Bosic when he was in the mood - unstoppable

I also liked Downing for his ability to cross a ball round people. By that I mean if you keep up with a winger they as a general rule cannot get a cross in.

The other man I loved was Murdoch. It was almost impossible to get the ball off the man and he could pass it anywhere on the field to the nearest yard anywhere he liked under any pressure. He " made" Charlton's promotion side tick as he always had Foggon , Mills and Armstrong to chose from with usually only two defenders. Almost unerringly he chose the "right" one

Sorry boring every one again
 

Erimus74

Well-known member
The Robson era was interesting Holgate but I have to disagree on Rav. As a striker you need a man who will score the goal that makes the difference against a good side. Rav was never that man. He scored a lot of goals against poor/er opposition but very rarely against sides where he could make a difference.

I thought the most interesting comment on Juninho was by Mannion. He said he'd be more effective if he passed the ball a bit sooner. Mannion was regarded by many as the finest player of his generation. His contempories have been known to comment that they like playing with him as he made them look better. I only caught the tail - end of his career and I'm not sure I saw the best of him live

I liked Bosic when he was in the mood - unstoppable

I also liked Downing for his ability to cross a ball round people. By that I mean if you keep up with a winger they as a general rule cannot get a cross in.

The other man I loved was Murdoch. It was almost impossible to get the ball off the man and he could pass it anywhere on the field to the nearest yard anywhere he liked under any pressure. He " made" Charlton's promotion side tick as he always had Foggon , Mills and Armstrong to chose from with usually only two defenders. Almost unerringly he chose the "right" one

Sorry boring every one again
Not boring at all Rishworth, love reading about the older times
 
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HolgateCorner

Well-known member
The Robson era was interesting Holgate but I have to disagree on Rav. As a striker you need a man who will score the goal that makes the difference against a good side. Rav was never that man. He scored a lot of goals against poor/er opposition but very rarely against sides where he could make a difference.

I thought the most interesting comment on Juninho was by Mannion. He said he'd be more effective if he passed the ball a bit sooner. Mannion was regarded by many as the finest player of his generation. His contempories have been known to comment that they like playing with him as he made them look better. I only caught the tail - end of his career and I'm not sure I saw the best of him live

I liked Bosic when he was in the mood - unstoppable

I also liked Downing for his ability to cross a ball round people. By that I mean if you keep up with a winger they as a general rule cannot get a cross in.

The other man I loved was Murdoch. It was almost impossible to get the ball off the man and he could pass it anywhere on the field to the nearest yard anywhere he liked under any pressure. He " made" Charlton's promotion side tick as he always had Foggon , Mills and Armstrong to chose from with usually only two defenders. Almost unerringly he chose the "right" one

Sorry boring every one again
Rishworthian, I should have said I rarely agreed with my Dad but he did like watching the quality players who had that bit extra.

I think Rav was probably past his best but he did give some memorable moments including the Liverpool hat-trick and the lovely curled second goal at Derby to break their spirit and put us into the semi finals for the first time. Personally I also thought Rav and Juninho played off each other very well.

That said, we did agree on the likes of Murdoch and Souness, a rare Boro side with world class craftsmen in the midfield! Murdoch has to be the best passer of the ball I’ve seen in terms of both vision and accuracy. And Souness was the complete central midfielder.

Boksic is one of the few Boro players I’ve seen to genuinely terrify the opposition‘s crowd, I was in the main stand at Newcastle when he put us 2 up after half an hour and the Geordies were literally screaming at their players to get the ball off him! Great days.

Downing? Played a major part in putting us into a European final in my opinion 👍
 

Erimus74

Well-known member
Rishworthian, I should have said I rarely agreed with my Dad but he did like watching the quality players who had that bit extra.

I think Rav was probably past his best but he did give some memorable moments including the Liverpool hat-trick and the lovely curled second goal at Derby to break their spirit and put us into the semi finals for the first time. Personally I also thought Rav and Juninho played off each other very well.

That said, we did agree on the likes of Murdoch and Souness, a rare Boro side with world class craftsmen in the midfield! Murdoch has to be the best passer of the ball I’ve seen in terms of both vision and accuracy. And Souness was the complete central midfielder.

Boksic is one of the few Boro players I’ve seen to genuinely terrify the opposition‘s crowd, I was in the main stand at Newcastle when he put us 2 up after half an hour and the Geordies were literally screaming at their players to get the ball off him! Great days.

Downing? Played a major part in putting us into a European final in my opinion 👍
Agree with all that Holgate
 

Lottowyn

Well-known member
Rishworthian, I should have said I rarely agreed with my Dad but he did like watching the quality players who had that bit extra.

I think Rav was probably past his best but he did give some memorable moments including the Liverpool hat-trick and the lovely curled second goal at Derby to break their spirit and put us into the semi finals for the first time. Personally I also thought Rav and Juninho played off each other very well.

That said, we did agree on the likes of Murdoch and Souness, a rare Boro side with world class craftsmen in the midfield! Murdoch has to be the best passer of the ball I’ve seen in terms of both vision and accuracy. And Souness was the complete central midfielder.

Boksic is one of the few Boro players I’ve seen to genuinely terrify the opposition‘s crowd, I was in the main stand at Newcastle when he put us 2 up after half an hour and the Geordies were literally screaming at their players to get the ball off him! Great days.

Downing? Played a major part in putting us into a European final in my opinion 👍
I watched Brian Clough all through his career starting with the time he came into the side replacing another Boro young centre forward who had got injured making his debut, Doug Cooper I think he was called .
I saw practically every Clough home game until we sold him to Sunderland and I think that anyone who actually watched him live would find it hard to say they have seen a better centre forward than BC. I am still a Boro fan and although we've had wonderful strikers, none of them were better than Clough at scoring when someone gave him the ball in the opposition's half .
 

Rishworthian

Active member
Sorry Lotto I don't remember Doug Cooper. You'll have read my opinion on Clough. I didn't get there as often as you.

I didn't really rate Rav but Jimmy Floyd was a good player as was Yakubu but he went down a lot in my opinion over his transfer demand. I was at Wigan the night he was truly awful. The big Aussie was at times almost unplayable in the box but he didn't have anything like Cloughys strike rate

I did see Rhodes at Huddersfield a time or three. He did have a lot of the Clough ability to score but it never came through as strongly as he moved up the leagues. He was never quick except when the ball was at his feet in the penalty area but as he grew older he seemed to get slower and lose a bit of desire

I have always like the Clough stories that were along the lines of the ball came into the area and team mates got shoved out of the way so Clough could score. They may or not be true but they serve to illustrate Clough's focus

Considering his heading ability was not that good his strike rate was extraordinary
 

Erimus74

Well-known member
I watched Brian Clough all through his career starting with the time he came into the side replacing another Boro young centre forward who had got injured making his debut, Doug Cooper I think he was called .
I saw practically every Clough home game until we sold him to Sunderland and I think that anyone who actually watched him live would find it hard to say they have seen a better centre forward than BC. I am still a Boro fan and although we've had wonderful strikers, none of them were better than Clough at scoring when someone gave him the ball in the opposition's half .
Brian Clough & Raymond Henderson were the 1st goalscorers after I was born, the day after in fact in a 2-0 home win over Norwich, 15th October 1960
 

Rishworthian

Active member
Holgate I'm not too worried about our minor differences on Rav but I could well have written your exact words on Murdoch.

Our opinions on Downing are not that popular these days but in his day he could do extraordinary things with a football. He was definitely the sort of player who needed an arm round him at times and Woody said it all when at Stoke clatter him early doors and you'll have a quiet afternoon. Sad but true
 

Rishworthian

Active member
Erimus you're nowt but a bairn !! When I was born there was a war on and no NHS

I was however born in a nursing home in Nunthorpe called Ardencable. It was a dormer bungalow on the top of Gypsy Lane, I believe. I'd not be too surprised if you could see the Riverside from the garden

The youngsters in the ticket office always laugh at me when I ask for a car parking ticket for the "bomb site"

Me Dad was born on North Ormesby High Street probably where the flyover is now and his dad worked at Cocherans (roundabout Car Park E - these days)

cannot get away from the place
 
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