"These things even themselves out"

I’m r
festa5 said:
I thought it was about crap refereeing decisions and a desire to get more of them correct.

But it was actually brought in all just because people understood how probability works and didn't like a cliché that says otherwise?

Wow, every day is a school day.
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The probability of incorrect decisions evening out from jan to jan is the same as aug-aug isn’t it?
 
The Leeds players badgered the referee all game challenging every decision so in the end he didn't want to give a decision against them. Also what I find infuriating in modern football is players who put there hands to their heads in mock horror at every little decision against them. As for the linesman he was just incompetent.
 
Jimmy_Salmon said:
There was an offside in the lead up to the penalty at Elland Road also so that’s 6 points they’ve stolen off us when it could’ve been two. Not very even!
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I thought there was an offside in the build up for their first also last night - not had the opportunity to view it though yet
 
Merlin said:
I thought there was an offside in the build up for their first also last night - not had the opportunity to view it though yet
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I checked, it was onside, Bamford was very close, needs the lines painting, think he might have just been on.
 
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It means you get some that go for you and some that don’t. Over the 33 years I’ve been supporting Boro I could give you a massive list of incidents that have gone both for and against us, from Kernghan having the ball lamped at him at Fratton Park and conceding a penalty for having the temerity to have an arm, to Kav’s ‘ghost goal’ in the FA Cup against Cardiff, right through to Jimmy’s handball against Newcastle and Forss’ dive at Blackpool last season that was rewarded with a penalty.

That’s without the thousands of free kicks, throw-ins and corners that have gone both for and against us in that time and that have contributed to goals, corners and free kicks in every game played since my first in January 1991.

Some you get, some you don’t. I’m not sure whether it’s the culture we live in or what but people now just cannot accept something going against their football team. Maybe the expression ‘it evens itself out’ comes from a time when maybe somebody with a reasonable outlook decided not to engage in blame, fury and rage aimed at officials and just accepted that the next one that comes may well be in our favour.

Every single game contains hundreds of these things. The place we are headed with this fury aimed not just at referees now but their assistant and the extra referees working remotely, it’s just not going to end well at all.

Just grow up and accept that sometimes you’ll be on the end of a wrong decision. Accept that everyone makes mistakes in their life, their job, their profession. It’s part and parcel. People are so entitled now. It’s so, so negative. Some of these mistakes go in your favour as well.

I cannot get my head around the fact there are people watching the absolute shambles that is VAR in the Premier League who are not only happy for it to be inflicted out our own league as well but actually openly advocating for it. It’s insane, what these bodies are doing to football. Just leave it the f*ck alone.

Go and inflict your rulers and your freeze frames and your styluses and your broom cupboards and your long, boring, tedious, soul-sapping checks on some other poor sods instead. Or better still, go and organise your own version of football and entertain yourselves with your silly little toys instead of spoiling ours.
 
BoroMart said:
I checked, it was onside, Bamford was very close, needs the lines painting, think he might have just been on.
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The build up for the penalty kick i thought Rutter came back from an offside position to receive the ball, lots around me were calling for it
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
It means you get some that go for you and some that don’t. Over the 33 years I’ve been supporting Boro I could give you a massive list of incidents that have gone both for and against us, from Kernghan having the ball lamped at him at Fratton Park and conceding a penalty for having the temerity to have an arm, to Kav’s ‘ghost goal’ in the FA Cup against Cardiff, right through to Jimmy’s handball against Newcastle and Forss’ dive at Blackpool last season that was rewarded with a penalty.

That’s without the thousands of free kicks, throw-ins and corners that have gone both for and against us in that time and that have contributed to goals, corners and free kicks in every game played since my first in January 1991.

Some you get, some you don’t. I’m not sure whether it’s the culture we live in or what but people now just cannot accept something going against their football team. Maybe the expression ‘it evens itself out’ comes from a time when maybe somebody with a reasonable outlook decided not to engage in blame, fury and rage aimed at officials and just accepted that the next one that comes may well be in our favour.

Every single game contains hundreds of these things. The place we are headed with this fury aimed not just at referees now but their assistant and the extra referees working remotely, it’s just not going to end well at all.

Just grow up and accept that sometimes you’ll be on the end of a wrong decision. Accept that everyone makes mistakes in their life, their job, their profession. It’s part and parcel. People are so entitled now. It’s so, so negative. Some of these mistakes go in your favour as well.

I cannot get my head around the fact there are people watching the absolute shambles that is VAR in the Premier League who are not only happy for it to be inflicted out our own league as well but actually openly advocating for it. It’s insane, what these bodies are doing to football. Just leave it the f*ck alone.

Go and inflict your rulers and your freeze frames and your styluses and your broom cupboards and your long, boring, tedious, soul-sapping checks on some other poor sods instead. Or better still, go and organise your own version of football and entertain yourselves with your silly little toys instead of spoiling ours.
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Only "33 years" !?
Spring chicken ;):love:(y)
 
Jimmy_Salmon said:
There was an offside in the lead up to the penalty at Elland Road also so that’s 6 points they’ve stolen off us when it could’ve been two. Not very even!
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Clearly we’ve been stiffed more times this season than we’ve had situations go for us. May I remind everyone that refs are now paid decent wages. Back in the day when they were amateurs we gave them the benefit of doubt because we knew they were doing it for the love of the game. However, despite training and a good salary they still manage to be stupid.
 
Merlin said:
Can’t tell from that really unless you see it in real time
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Well you can really. That is the moment the ball leaves the Leeds player's head on its way to Summerville.
Summerville is clearly onside at that point.
I'm not sure what more you would need.
Easy enough to watch it on the highlights and pause it if you want.
 
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TeaCider said:
The Sky coverage has been using phrases like "replays suggested he may have been offside", rather than he was blatantly offside, which was irritating.
It's not even questionable or tight.

Farke thinks it would have been classed as onside 10 years ago 😂

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They used every excuse in the book to excuse the offside," the other Leeds player was obscuring the linesman's view" etc and were very sympathetic to it, then a few minutes later just before the end of the 1st half they were really disappointed with the corner we got from Isaiah and saying they made a bad error, the total contrast in their attitude to both incidents.
 
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viv_andersons_nana said:
Just grow up and accept that sometimes you’ll be on the end of a wrong decision. Accept that everyone makes mistakes in their life, their job, their profession. It’s part and parcel. People are so entitled now. It’s so, so negative. Some of these mistakes go in your favour as well.
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Nobody needs to grow up purely because they have a different opinion.

Nobody is saying we are always on the end of poor decisions and never get any in our favour, nobody.

Nobody is blaming teh refs for being infallible, they make mistakes, the purpose of VAR isn't to blame them, it's to help rectify them.

Nobody is being entitled, some people value the idea of improving decision making, nothing more.

I've read posts from those against VAR complaining about decisions in the past, that's being negative is it not?

The issue is there is no way to say they even out, it's an urban myth. There is zero evidence for that. you could get a decision go against you that ends up in relegation, then 4 months later get one in your favour that sends you to the 4th round of the FA cup, is the impact the same, no. But apparently they've evened out.

Frozen Horse said:
Then it's just not large enough sample, is it?
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That's exactly my point, if you ignore factors like size of club and media/fan pressure that might influence poor decision making, and take every club as being equally treated, then there is nothing limiting to this "decisions even themselves out" being in the same season. So you could miss out on europe or get relegated due to a poor decision, and then get a meaningless decision in your favour the next season that evens out and gets you one place higher in the midtable in a lower league. Yes, technically you've had one go in your favour and one against, but the impact hasn't evened out. The impacts of poor decisions in this sport can be huge. It's generally a low scoring sport, where the chance to recover from poor decisions is fairly small, the costs in terms of loss of revenue or failure to get promoted can be huge sums100m plus.
 
Nobody believes in things evening themselves up in the moment; only in the abstract when we are discussing football generally.

I doubt Chesterfield fans (for example as it was the anniversary to the replay yesterday) think; yeah it was probably over the line but the winner against Crewe the weekend after we got lucky so it's all square.
 
BoroMart said:
Nobody needs to grow up purely because they have a different opinion.

Nobody is saying we are always on the end of poor decisions and never get any in our favour, nobody.

Nobody is blaming teh refs for being infallible, they make mistakes, the purpose of VAR isn't to blame them, it's to help rectify them.

Nobody is being entitled, some people value the idea of improving decision making, nothing more.

I've read posts from those against VAR complaining about decisions in the past, that's being negative is it not?

The issue is there is no way to say they even out, it's an urban myth. There is zero evidence for that. you could get a decision go against you that ends up in relegation, then 4 months later get one in your favour that sends you to the 4th round of the FA cup, is the impact the same, no. But apparently they've evened out.


That's exactly my point, if you ignore factors like size of club and media/fan pressure that might influence poor decision making, and take every club as being equally treated, then there is nothing limiting to this "decisions even themselves out" being in the same season. So you could miss out on europe or get relegated due to a poor decision, and then get a meaningless decision in your favour the next season that evens out and gets you one place higher in the midtable in a lower league. Yes, technically you've had one go in your favour and one against, but the impact hasn't evened out. The impacts of poor decisions in this sport can be huge. It's generally a low scoring sport, where the chance to recover from poor decisions is fairly small, the costs in terms of loss of revenue or failure to get promoted can be huge sums100m plus.
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It’s not meant to be taken literally. As I said, some you get and some you don’t. The actual problem, in my opinion, is caused by those who cannot accept a mistake or a wrong call going against their team to the point where the laws and even the game itself must be changed to ensure they are forced to suffer such grave injustices no longer. What’s happened, is happening, to football is just so stupid.

The point here is that there will never be a time at which this stuff will end because the people who can’t accept refereeing decisions and/or mistakes will always, always find an angle, a moment, a version, that proves their team has been wronged. Meanwhile the rest of us are made to sit there and wait for an indeterminate amount of time while someone in a cupboard gets out a stylus and a ruler and tries to resolve it. At which point it begins again.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
It’s not meant to be taken literally. As I said, some you get and some you don’t. The actual problem, in my opinion, is caused by those who cannot accept a mistake or a wrong call going against their team to the point where the laws and even the game itself must be changed to ensure they are forced to suffer such grave injustices no longer. What’s happened, is happening, to football is just so stupid.
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Are you two arguing with each other by agreeing on the same point?
 
Honestly. People moaning about an offside goal when the only trophy we ever won, we did so thanks to a refereeing error.
When we qualified for our first ever season in Europe due to the ref not spotting that papa bouba diops shot had crossed the line.
 
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