These people sat in parks today

Malaguena said:
"they have a total different perspective because of the guidelines that they have"

I'm not being pedantic here Gaz, because I think it's the important point - our's aren't "guidelines" - they're "instructions", dictated by law, and enforced by Police, and everyone here understands that
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I do feel that the English public need instructions not guidelines. This government has failed on giving clear guidelines, never mind instructions

I don’t agree with people flaunting the guidelines here, and those that do are being selfish. I agree with a lot of what you say. I just personally don’t see a problem with people leaving their house to exercise, when it’s one of the reason your allowed to leave the house

Maybe I just read the text in the wrong way, it’s easy to do and maybe I should apologise on that front. Tends to be why I pick the phone up to people at work.
 
Laughing said:
Fluffy, maybe 12 and a half thousand dead colour Spanishmans comments.
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UPDATED: Sadly with many more to come.

Sadly a number of those deaths could have been avoided if Spain had done better. Here are a couple of example:

- better planning in advance for more PPE and ventilators for use in hospitals.

- better lock down earlier - a significant number of avoidable deaths have been down to not locking down areas of infection quickly enough. So people "escaped" from Madrid, Catalonia (and elsewhere) by moving to second homes or family homes elsewhere in the country. I understand that Málaga and other places on the south coast have suffered because of this.
 
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I think your argument should be with the government and not ppl like me who are totally responsible people and know not to do my exercise in a busy park for example. I actually think a total lockdown would be the right thing to do because of all the selfish people flauting the rules. I see it everyday in my street with people visiting families. You are choosing the wrong person to fight and like you say raise your blood pressure here Spanishman.
 
There are plenty of epidemiologists (including the national advisors in Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Holland) who are saying that a total lockdown makes little difference to the fatalities. This pandemic will not be over in two weeks, three weeks or even three months, and you can't keep people under house arrest for that long. Ultimately, when the "lockdown" is relaxed, you still have to deal with the disease. In Norway and Denmark, the governments ignored the advice of their scientists. ANyone adopting a position where they say "This is right ... or "this is wrong" ... is gainsaying scientists, who themselves don't know how things will pan out. Some more tolerance of alternative viewpoints on here please. Just to bel clear on my own position, I am doing essential shopping for my family and one or two elderly neighbours, as well as getting exercise walking an 86 year old lady's dog once a day in a remote location that I can walk to. That's it.
 
GazC_MFC said:
I do feel that the English public need instructions not guidelines. This government has failed on giving clear guidelines, never mind instructions

I don’t agree with people flaunting the guidelines here, and those that do are being selfish. I agree with a lot of what you say. I just personally don’t see a problem with people leaving their house to exercise, when it’s one of the reason your allowed to leave the house

Maybe I just read the text in the wrong way, it’s easy to do and maybe I should apologise on that front. Tends to be why I pick the phone up to people at work.
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"Maybe I just read the text in the wrong way, it’s easy to do and maybe I should apologise on that front"

Absolutely no need for an apology Gaz - it's just views being exchanged in an adult manner
 
borolad259 said:
There are plenty of epidemiologists (including the national advisors in Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Holland) who are saying that a total lockdown makes little difference to the fatalities. This pandemic will not be over in two weeks, three weeks or even three months, and you can't keep people under house arrest for that long. Ultimately, when the "lockdown" is relaxed, you still have to deal with the disease. In Norway and Denmark, the governments ignored the advice of their scientists. ANyone adopting a position where they say "This is right ... or "this is wrong" ... is gainsaying scientists, who themselves don't know how things will pan out. Some more tolerance of alternative viewpoints on here please. Just to bel clear on my own position, I am doing essential shopping for my family and one or two elderly neighbours, as well as getting exercise walking an 86 year old lady's dog once a day in a remote location that I can walk to. That's it.
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I understand what you are saying. However lock down is not about the final resolution of this. It is only a short term thing. It is the way in which countries with limited or diminished medical infrastructure (for whatever reason) can try to keep the peak below the available facilities. To minimise short term fatalities. Sadly this has not occured in Spain. So we are playing catch up. Once that has happened governments will have to transition out of lock down. Hopefully the planning for that is already underway here in Spain.
 
Malaguena said:
"Maybe I just read the text in the wrong way, it’s easy to do and maybe I should apologise on that front"

Absolutely no need for an apology Gaz - it's just views being exchanged in an adult manner
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Unless those views are not your own of course. If you are being consistent you will call borolad259 selfish, even though he is being thoroughly responsible.
 
Fluffycarpet said:
I think your argument should be with the government and not ppl like me who are totally responsible people and know not to do my exercise in a busy park for example. I actually think a total lockdown would be the right thing to do because of all the selfish people flauting the rules. I see it everyday in my street with people visiting families. You are choosing the wrong person to fight and like you say raise your blood pressure here Spanishman.
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Fluffy your comment makes no sense, if you think a total lockdown is the right thing to do why are you still going for a run? Because it's allowed? That makes no sense at all.
 
I'm impressed that for the thousands of reporters up and down the country, there is excellent social distancing. The biggest crime they can find is a couple sat on the floor in a park or a family day on the beach.

I go for a walk, don't stop for a sit down or picnic, and understand that is the way we should interpret the guidelines / law, but, at the moment, this is a non-story.

The time will come when people will rebel, but not yet.
 
Laughing said:
Fluffy your comment makes no sense, if you think a total lockdown is the right thing to do why are you still going for a run? Because it's allowed? That makes no sense at all.
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It makes total sense. The government view of allowing people to go out for resposible exercise is right in my view. I am doing this. However, just like if you read BBC News now, because people are not being responsible, that may have to change.
 
otto62 said:
I'll try giving an answer to why you in particular should not travel to that isolated spot where nobody else is and go for a 3 hour walkk there.

On this thread the government are being blamed for not being precise enough in their instructions, they should offer a clear blanket rule not open to people's interpretations, because otherwise people decide that what they're doing is really ok.

For example - don't go outside, but you can for exercise - how often is the right amount? how do you exercise? where do you exercise? when I've finished can i sit in the park for bit with my mates?

So, in the example of your 30 minutes car ride to a secluded spot where there's no one there and you walk for 3 hours.
How would you expect the government to make a clear rule about what is and isn't allowed? Guaranteed you'd have people saying well if he can go for a 30 minute drive, surely I can drive down to the coast? If he can go to that secluded spot where there's no-one, surely I can go to that local walk where there'll only be half a dozen people in miles of space, or to the beach because there aren't supposed to be many people out? In fact if I only stay for a few minutes I can probably meet up there with my mates. And suddenly everyone is driving around where ever they like.

It happened in Sydney. Stay home, but you can go out for necessary exercise. Last beautiful day of summer and thousands of people in Sydney flocked to the beach, stacked up side by side. So the government had to say, no one goes to the beach anymore. People are stupid.

You want to know how stupid? That beach closure was a week ago. On tonight's news some lunatic with his two kids next to him was interviewed saying: "It's unfair that me and my kids can go out on the water together in our canoes. We live in the same house. Coronavirus can't be transmitted on water." As soon as you say yes to that, you open it up to every surfer ... every boogie board rider ... every body surfer ... every swimmer ... every partner of said persons ... their children (are you going to stop children wading in the water while their dad is out on his jet ski?) ... every wader ... every paddler ... every dog walker ... etc, etc.

Just do what the government is saying.
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Okay so the point being that we shouldn't be allowed to go to a remote/secluded spot to exercise because others may do the same and then it is not remote & secluded anymore. Well I live in a town with population of @27,000 and, by "doing what the government are saying", I am allowed to to walk out from my front door for exercise where a good proportion of that 27,000 will also be doing the same. All walking / cycling from their own front door's around the same streets, footpaths and parks as myself. Where is the sense in that ?
I get what you say about some people taking liberties but this is like banning everyone from driving because a few people speed and drive dangerously.

Anyway I am doing what the government says, reluctantly, and as this is the law as it stands it makes any discussion on it somewhat moot. So that is my final whinge on the subject. I also appear to have upset Spanishman and raised his blood pressure :oops: - although I suspect that was mainly down him getting a tad stir crazy mixed with a Saturday night Rioja and Fundador session :cool:
 
Fluffycarpet said:
Unless those views are not your own of course
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"Unless those views are not your own of course "

Which bit of "exchange of views" don't you understand ? - I don't agree with some views, which is why I offer my take on them - that's called an exchange
 
Malaguena said:
"Unless those views are not your own of course "

Which bit of "exchange of views" don't you understand ? - I don't agree with some views, which is why I offer my take on them - that's called an exchange
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True, but if you don't like what you here you say "Fluffy and Konrad just reinforcing the point - "I know best and I'll do what I want" even tho we have said constantly we are doing what the government says and are being responsible.
 
bear66 said:
I'm impressed that for the thousands of reporters up and down the country, there is excellent social distancing. The biggest crime they can find is a couple sat on the floor in a park or a family day on the beach.

I go for a walk, don't stop for a sit down or picnic, and understand that is the way we should interpret the guidelines / law, but, at the moment, this is a non-story.

The time will come when people will rebel, but not yet.
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I agree. For the most part, where I live, people are behaving responsibly. There are the odd youth taking the opportunity to pedal their bikes onto the hills for a sit down and a spliff, but, by and large, social distancing is the norm. A total lockdown would result in civil disobedience pretty quickly though. And the police here in the uk are not inclined, I don't think, to be the jackboot for fascist style government (whereas they have always seemed quite happy to take that role in Spain).
 
borolad259 said:
I agree. For the most part, where I live, people are behaving responsibly. There are the odd youth taking the opportunity to pedal their bikes onto the hills for a sit down and a spliff, but, by and large, social distancing is the norm. A total lockdown would result in civil disobedience pretty quickly though. And the police here in the uk are not inclined, I don't think, to be the jackboot for fascist style government (whereas they have always seemed quite happy to take that role in Spain).
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Nice prejudices and national stereotyping in there. I like it.
 
borolad259 said:
The other path .... no-one knows, yet, which will be the right one. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/he...zooYv2qH_-xzAibipR_mXT8uIHqtTH_Q8GlVRe67MVBFY
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I think it may help a lot if you are in a country with a history of high taxation. Plus good medical facilities. As you know the UK went for herd immunity first. Then backed away from it. Due to the modelling predicting hundreds and thousands of deaths and the NHS not coping. Now the UK has a wishy washy lock down instead. Which looks like it may not prevent parts on the NHS from suffering the horrific scenes we have witnessed here in Madrid. I guess we will have to wait and see.
 
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