There is talk on various platforms about civil disobedience..............

Boroboyyo

Well-known member
I think it will start to show the government how bad things will get when people just stop buying things because they have to pay their bills. The economy needs people spending and if people don’t we will have a hard recession. I don’t think the government should give out money because a decent portion of the public will not spend it for what it’s intended. However, it may mean we have to have a cut in other taxes to cope with increased bills. Be it in on income tax , NIC, council tax or VAT. We need these discussions now, sunak and truss can’t just stick their heads in the sand and pretend it’s not a problem when it evidently is going to be

I’m starting a new career next week so I’m personally not on a big wage at the minute myself. If I have to pay the increased bills I will simply just buy food and pay bills and nothing else. So will others , and governments don’t want that.

To all the people who say they will refuse to pay are simply setting themselves up for a ****ed up credit rating . I have plans to buy a house soon so it’s the last thing I want to do.

Make no mistake , it will be a tough winter for all of Europe as we remove our reliance on that fascists energy supply, but governments have to start giving advice to their citizens now and explain why this is happening. If possible , there needs to be a massive acceleration over time towards renewables and nuclear too.
 

Randy

Well-known member
Obviously you don't know me at all and I personally don't know you. I spent 28 years serving my Queen and Country so while you slept safe in your freedom, I, my brothers and sisters in arms kept you safe and now YOU want to destroy that with riots and mayhem in an effort to IMPROVE this Country and at what cost, death, mayhem and destruction. I also spent 5 years in the Prison Service dealing with those you feel are the freedom Fighters you condone after the last civic disturbances. To say I hate this Country is a slur on my passion and my loyalty for this Country, how dare you!
I really do not want to see the likes of you and your idealistic mates ruining it for everyone. The Country is in a shoite state but to have running riots, which you seem to condone and feel is OK as a given right. But if you feel a change of Government is the answer, keep taking the Wobbly Eggs.
**I will end my participation on this thread as it's like talking to a child who cannot get their own way unless they smash something up in effort to gain attention**
Small Town=Small mind.
Game.
Set.
Match.
 

Nano

Well-known member
There is going to be a huge recession if the government don't act now. The other thread about what your bills are going up to I mentioned that my bills are going to be £5k higher than they were this time last year. That is only energy, everything else is going up. Inflation is at 10%. The only thing not going up is wages. In the NHS we have all been given £1,400 payrise this year, after tax that's about £800. I would have needed a payrise of £9k just to pay my energy bills. Probably £12k to cover all the other rising costs. That is a huge hit to personal finances and that is being replicated throughout the country. Who is going to have any money left over to spend on anything other than basic essentials?

It's alright talking about civil disobedience but it's clear that people really mean "I hope someone else risks everything to violently protest so my situation is improved but I'm obviously going to do nothing but commentate along on a messageboard". Talking the talk is much easier than walking the walk. I'm as guilty of it as anyone else, I can't afford to risk everything, but then again I'm not going to try and incite others to violence for personal gain.


As for the petty argument above. We get very few chances to actually make our opinion heard and that is at the ballot box. All the comments and bravado online are meaningless if you go and vote Tory anyway. If the pair of you both voted Tory then there is no difference. You got exactly what you voted for. I'm sure the phrase "Own it" was popular not so long ago and it seems to aptly sum up this pettiness.
 

RoaryTheLion

Well-known member
In the NHS we have all been given £1,400 payrise this year, after tax that's about £800. I would have needed a payrise of £9k just to pay my energy bills. Probably £12k to cover all the other rising costs.

I'm as guilty of it as anyone else, I can't afford to risk everything, but then again I'm not going to try and incite others to violence for personal gain.
So how long until you have nothing at all left to risk?
 

Nano

Well-known member
So how long until you have nothing at all left to risk?
Longer than most. I've got savings, I've got assets, I've got support and I've got lots I can cut back on. I know not everyone is as lucky as me but I'd also wager those above that are expecting violence in the streets to be closer to my situation than the desperate situation that others will find themselves in.
 

Boroboyyo

Well-known member
There is going to be a huge recession if the government don't act now. The other thread about what your bills are going up to I mentioned that my bills are going to be £5k higher than they were this time last year. That is only energy, everything else is going up. Inflation is at 10%. The only thing not going up is wages. In the NHS we have all been given £1,400 payrise this year, after tax that's about £800. I would have needed a payrise of £9k just to pay my energy bills. Probably £12k to cover all the other rising costs. That is a huge hit to personal finances and that is being replicated throughout the country. Who is going to have any money left over to spend on anything other than basic essentials?

It's alright talking about civil disobedience but it's clear that people really mean "I hope someone else risks everything to violently protest so my situation is improved but I'm obviously going to do nothing but commentate along on a messageboard". Talking the talk is much easier than walking the walk. I'm as guilty of it as anyone else, I can't afford to risk everything, but then again I'm not going to try and incite others to violence for personal gain.


As for the petty argument above. We get very few chances to actually make our opinion heard and that is at the ballot box. All the comments and bravado online are meaningless if you go and vote Tory anyway. If the pair of you both voted Tory then there is no difference. You got exactly what you voted for. I'm sure the phrase "Own it" was popular not so long ago and it seems to aptly sum up this pettiness.

The problem with stuff like “civil disobedience” is the assumption the alternative is also better , when it isn’t necessarily. What are these people advocating ? Socialism ? No thank you, I’m not a socialist and never will be . Regulated capitalism with some socially liberal policies in my opinion is the best way to run a country .I personally don’t want a big government with high public spending. I’m not interested too in civil disobedience and I’m sure most of the country isn’t either

If we have to pay these bills then the government are going to have to intervene to help with other areas instead. I’ve already spoken to my wife about halting buying a house because we’re worried about impending bills . I won’t be alone and others will curb their spending. If we stop spending, we enter recession
 

Randy

Well-known member
Not really no. He's happy to let the government destroy the lives of the people of this country.
I'm not .

Shows who actually CARES for the country
Where has he said that please? Again I'll await the quote. Systematic destruction of innocent people's businesses through riots isn't the way to go. Neither is a general strike. Who keeps the lights on and the nuclear power stations running in that scenario? Who keeps the water flowing into our homes? Who transports the food to the shops?

I have my thoughts on how things could be changed but I'll keep them to myself and the lads in the pub. 👍🏻
 

RoaryTheLion

Well-known member
Longer than most. I've got savings, I've got assets, I've got support and I've got lots I can cut back on. I know not everyone is as lucky as me but I'd also wager those above that are expecting violence in the streets to be closer to my situation than the desperate situation that others will find themselves in.
Are you content for your savings and assets to be eroded away? You’ve worked hard for that. This isn’t even capitalism anymore. Work hard, follow the rules and you’ve still ended up with nothing. Neoliberalism is total snake oil and people are happy to give away all that they’ve earned before they get upset. It’s not a dig at you mate but this attitude drives me up the wall. “I’ve got too much to lose even though I’m aware that I’m going to lose it anyway”.
 

Nano

Well-known member
As much as I am looking forward to the next GE and the opportunity to select a different government that is not what is needed right now. We don't need to change the government for them to do something to cap energy prices. We can probably survive without a recession if the government just subsidises the energy price rise. It can be short-term (like funding furlough) to get through a crisis. The alternative is a long and deep recession. I think a (peaceful) general strike, in order to force the government to act on the current crisis is a very real possibility. There's a big difference between a government changing policy and being overthrown.

Are you content for your savings and assets to be eroded away? You’ve worked hard for that. This isn’t even capitalism anymore. Work hard, follow the rules and you’ve still ended up with nothing. Neoliberalism is total snake oil and people are happy to give away all that they’ve earned before they get upset. It’s not a dig at you mate but this attitude drives me up the wall. “I’ve got too much to lose even though I’m aware that I’m going to lose it anyway”.
Ah sorry, I see the confusion. When I say too much to lose, I don't mean financially. I mean if I go off rioting and I get arrested/killed/lose my job or whatever then there's nobody left to provide for my family. I'll happily strike/protest/demonstrate etc but I'm not going to do anything to put my family's security at risk.
 

RoaryTheLion

Well-known member
As much as I am looking forward to the next GE and the opportunity to select a different government that is not what is needed right now. We don't need to change the government for them to do something to cap energy prices. We can probably survive without a recession if the government just subsidises the energy price rise. It can be short-term (like funding furlough) to get through a crisis. The alternative is a long and deep recession. I think a (peaceful) general strike, in order to force the government to act on the current crisis is a very real possibility. There's a big difference between a government changing policy and being overthrown.


Ah sorry, I see the confusion. When I say too much to lose, I don't mean financially. I mean if I go off rioting and I get arrested/killed/lose my job or whatever then there's nobody left to provide for my family. I'll happily strike/protest/demonstrate etc but I'm not going to do anything to put my family's security at risk.
I understand mate. This is the bind for many people.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
You don’t. Rioting won’t get you one. You have to wait until one is called.
persistent rioting would almost certainly bring the government down. They rule out our approval, and if there is enough unrest, the government becomes untenable
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
I wouldn’t advocate persistent rioting.
I'm not 'advocating', I simply believe rioting is inevitable and have for a long time. I also believe that a failure to control it would undermine the governments approval to rule and bring it down.
 

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants

Well-known member
There was a ‘truther movement’ (the usual conspiracy freaks) who claimed that we didn’t have to pay for utilities etc as it comes from the Earth we all own or some such nonsense. They wanted everyone to stop paying bills.

This movement now is coming from their info, of which I have no doubt.
 
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