The "Zak Steffen" watch

He isn’t a bad goalkeeper and he is instrumental to how we play out from the back. That’s how City play too of course so clearly why he was/is on their books.
Playing that way does invite pressure, but that’s the idea.
But he is too casual for me and almost costs us a goal most games. Yesterdany he did cost us one. Agree though Paddy wasn’t at his most alert either.
Stefan will be the best we have at playing that way but he needs to work and improve.
it always bugged me how poor Schwarzer‘s kicking out was and seemed to me he never improved it either. Great goalkeeper otherwise though.
 
To add some facts to the conversation, as oppossed to opinion.

Srwffan's rating for passing the ball is higher than some of our outfield players. He makes more than twice as many long passes as the rest of the team and his accuracy is still very good.

Pass completion rate of 69.7% which is a touch below some of the outfield players, but as I said above, he makes more than twice as many long passes as the outfield players.

He is very good with the ball at his feet.

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I am 100% supportive of Carricks tactics to play out from the back including involving the keeper.

But I’be never been convinced that Steffen is good at executing those tactics.

I see Carrick has taken the blame on his own shoulders once again.

But will he do that if Steffen gifts a goal to the opposition in the play-off final that costs us the game?

I don’t think he’d be happy about
 
Steffen will not be with us next season
Steffen will never be a first choice premier league keeper at any club

He is simply too error prone and thats why we have him now
 
I reckon certain fans have made their minds up on Steffen early on and won’t have that changed no matter what.

Personally I’m glad we have him, he seems to be a strong character and is important to the way we play.

You only need to look at the likes of Allison and Ederson to see that even the elite goalkeepers make mistakes now and then, especially Allison.
 
Laughing said:
To add some facts to the conversation, as oppossed to opinion.

Srwffan's rating for passing the ball is higher than some of our outfield players. He makes more than twice as many long passes as the rest of the team and his accuracy is still very good.

Pass completion rate of 69.7% which is a touch below some of the outfield players, but as I said above, he makes more than twice as many long passes as the outfield players.

He is very good with the ball at his feet.

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Exactly this. How anyone can say that he is poor with the ball at his feet is beyond me. He's actually very good but as we do play this way all the time now it's inevitable that some bad passes will happen. Outfield players make them as well but further up the field it's less likely to lead to trouble. He over hit the pass to McNair so mainly his error but as somebody has said Paddy could have done better by staying on his feet goal side instead of lunging in.
 
festa5 said:
Are you sure you're not seeing what you want to see when it comes to McNair?
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I generally like McNair.

In this system the ball needs to move quickly and he rarely plays one touch.

Everyone else seems to be on the same wavelength - the ball, especially when going back to the keeper, is played first time which helps prevent the opposition closing down quickly.

McNair has a habit of taking a touch and turning outside before he gets closed down. Then he turns back inside and plays it to the keeper which gives the opposition an opportunity to put more pressure on.

Steffen has to release it quickly and there is more chance that other players will have been closed down in the interim.

It's a minor quibble but we're in fine margin territory.
 
TheYorkshireTerrier said:
I reckon certain fans have made their minds up on Steffen early on and won’t have that changed no matter what.

Personally I’m glad we have him, he seems to be a strong character and is important to the way we play.

You only need to look at the likes of Allison and Ederson to see that even the elite goalkeepers make mistakes now and then, especially Allison.
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Your not wrong. One poster even managed to blame our midfield inability to string 2 passes together in that second half on Steffan. There's a couple who think Carrick is just lying to protect Steffan.

The mind boggles
 
When I say he invites unnecessary pressure, I don’t simply mean by passing out from the back.

I mean taking 5 touches instead of 2, or waiting until the last second before passing. It comes stupidly close to the pass getting charged down, or he ends up having to rush the pass so much that he misplaces it, or passes it into an area that the defender didn’t want to receive it.


The same basic football principles of two touch football , moving the ball quickly, apply to keepers as much as they do to outfield players.

Instead of control, touch, pass… Stefan is more like control, touch, touch, have a look around, touch, touch, have a look… argh **** the striker’s right there, pass it out of play.


He thinks looking super relaxed make him look a better, more confident player, but it doesn’t.




Rant over 🙃
 
Alexander Supertramp said:
When I say he invites unnecessary pressure, I don’t simply mean by passing out from the back.

I mean taking 5 touches instead of 2, or waiting until the last second before passing. It comes stupidly close to the pass getting charged down, or he ends up having to rush the pass so much that he misplaces it, or passes it into an area that the defender didn’t want to receive it.


The same basic football principles of two touch football , moving the ball quickly, apply to keepers as much as they do to outfield players.

Instead of control, touch, pass… Stefan is more like control, touch, touch, have a look around, touch, touch, have a look… argh **** the striker’s right there, pass it out of play.


He thinks looking super relaxed make him look a better, more confident player, but it doesn’t.




Rant over 🙃
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Well there's probably a balance as to how long you wait but waiting till the forward closes him down will be intentional to help create space and angles to allow us to play out from the back.

Every keeper in a side that plays that way (an increasing number) does the same. It's not quite the same as an outfield player because all the play is in front of them.

Sometimes it'll result in having to rush or will look dangerous but the philosophy is the benefits outweigh the negatives. Of course the negatives are more noticeable which I suspect is part of the issue with some of the criticism.
 
It comes down to decision making I suppose… when to draw pressure and when to keep it moving. Hopefully that’s something he can work on.

Again, just because he’s a clean striker of a football doesn’t automatically mean he’s “good” with the ball at his feet
 
Alexander Supertramp said:
It comes down to decision making I suppose… when to draw pressure and when to keep it moving. Hopefully that’s something he can work on.
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Yep definitely. I think his early mistake v Sunderland actually spooked him a bit and he took fewer risks after it. That's probably the least fluid we've been as a team for ages, possibly partly down to Steffen going long more often which meant we gave up some control?

Suppose the other thing to take into account is the relatively short time we've been playing this way. It's a style that probably needs a really good understanding between the keeper and defenders. Still relatively early days really.
 
Carrick is Manu trained and has learned via great coaches so it doesn’t surprise me with his comments. Moreover what’s Carrick supposed to say? “Yeah he was c**p so we’re replacing him lol 😆”.

Carrick has been very consistent in his media responses but this usually follows some action like what he did with Jones and Hoppe, although I don’t expect to see any change with his goalkeeper selection.
 
Well, if there was one thing certain to come out of a pretty decent 1-3 win away from home it would be this thread or one very like it.

You often see what you are looking for.

The goal was 50:50 Steffen and McNair.

Pass is slightly astray (Steffen) + McNair goes to ground and fails to get the ball = goal conceded

I do get some silly pleasure from numpties GUARANTEEING that Steffen will not be playing for us next season and will never play in the PL. How do you guarantee that? I doubt even Pep could guarantee either of those things? Yet we get people who are so convinced of their own expertise in the face of any evidence to the contrary (like his passing stats and statements from our manager) that they will continue to watch Steffen in keen anticipation of a mistake as evidence to be presented of their own wisdom.

A less restrained tawt than me would bookmark this thread for future hoofing, not I though, not I...
 
Fans against a keeper playing from the back are just bizarre, what do they think happens If he kicks it long to an under 6 foot archer every time? Yes it wouldn’t immediately result in a goal but it gives away possession which will result in more chances created against us. Take the odd mistake and realise it creates far more goals than it costs.


Steffan is the best keeper since Randolph, but he won’t be here next year. Very solid but enough to justify huge wages and likely a big fee if we sign him? I’m not convinced. Sure in the summer we can replace him with someone of equal quality for half the price
 
JM14 said:
Fans against a keeper playing from the back are just bizarre, what do they think happens If he kicks it long to an under 6 foot archer every time? Yes it wouldn’t immediately result in a goal but it gives away possession which will result in more chances created against us. Take the odd mistake and realise it creates far more goals than it costs.


Steffan is the best keeper since Randolph, but he won’t be here next year. Very solid but enough to justify huge wages and likely a big fee if we sign him? I’m not convinced. Sure in the summer we can replace him with someone of equal quality for half the price
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Maybe not bizarre to be against it but I think a lot of fans are definitely behind the times and it shows a lack of understanding of the modern game.

We want to play on the front foot, be progressive in style and create and score lots of goals. It's finally happening so now some fans are moaning we take too many risks 🤦‍♂️ Can't have it both ways. I know which I prefer.
 
festa5 said:
Maybe not bizarre to be against it but I think a lot of fans are definitely behind the times and it shows a lack of understanding of the modern game.

We want to play on the front foot, be progressive in style and create and score lots of goals. It's finally happening so now some fans are moaning we take too many risks 🤦‍♂️ Can't have it both ways. I know which I prefer.
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Absolutely this.. to quote Steve McClaren.. some of our fans need educating about how we now play football.

There was a guy near me at the Watford game who, every time it went back to Steffen was shouting just put yer fking foot through it man!!

Utterly oblivious to the style of play we now have
 
JM14 said:
Steffan is the best keeper since Randolph, but he won’t be here next year. Very solid but enough to justify huge wages and likely a big fee if we sign him? I’m not convinced. Sure in the summer we can replace him with someone of equal quality for half the price
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Being the best goalkeeper since Randolph is a ridiculously low bar though, Lumley and Betinelli are two of the worst keepers we’ve ever had as first choice in the last 50 years.

Like many threads on here people have already nailed their colours to the mast on the subject and often play the man not the ball.

That said he was at fault for the goal yesterday as observed by unbiased views from the away fans and commentators who most definitely put the blame on the keepers shoulders. I believe their commentary team even called him our weak link at one point.
 
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