The poor kid killed by a dog

[Wez68]

You also missed out option 3, when the dog only responds to the alpha of the house as that’s how it was trained and doesn’t listen to anyone else often including wife / kids. Only problem is said alpha works away or does long shifts so when not there the dog does what it wants and often doesn’t get the exercise it needs and ends up full of energy, agitated and frustrated.

Very good point

 

[TeessideCleveland]

But wouldn’t that mean thousands of security dogs and working dogs get put down?

I do hear what you're saying. I would think most security dogs are on private land and many working dogs are on leads, but if there are other situations then I'm sure exemptions could be applied for

 

[SuperStu]

Let’s talk sense here ,no dog just suddenly goes from being a friendly placid family friend ,to being an out of control beast .

I think part of the issue on this thread Wez is that you and Zzzzz both speak in absolutes. He makes it seem every single staffy or bulldog are a ticking timebomb. You insist none are without being trained towards violence. I don't agree with either of you. I think probably there are some dogs that suddenly go out of control for reasons other than bad/negligent owners. Please note I'm specifically saying some. Not all, not most. Just some. And for the families where it happens it must be awful.

 

[Wez68]

I think part of the issue on this thread Wez is that you and Zzzzz both speak in absolutes. He makes it seem every single staffy or bulldog are a ticking timebomb. You insist none are without being trained towards violence. I don't agree with either of you. I think probably there are some dogs that suddenly go out of control for reasons other than bad/negligent owners. Please note I'm specifically saying some. Not all, not most. Just some. And for the families where it happens it must be awful.

I don’t believe I have ever said that ALL Stafford’s are perfect ,and I wouldn’t ,I do hold my hands up and say that I do try and speak up for the breed ,especially against the likes of the troll on here !!

 

[zzzzz]

I do believe that those breeds originally bred to be aggressive are a lot more likely to be.
The number of attacks from those breeds speak for themselves.
Their size and strength make them even more deadly.
You simply can't escape facts.
It's the reason why some breeds are banned.

 

[NoloBoro]

Let’s talk sense here ,no dog just suddenly goes from being a friendly placid family friend ,to being an out of control beast .
There’s always signs from being a pup ,now any responsible owner should see these signs and take steps to either correctly train this behaviour out ,or failing that and the animal is still unpredictable ,do the right thing and put it to sleep .
The problem we have is that certain owners want that aggression and be damned with the consequences, or on the other hand you have Jane from down the street who bought the dog for her kids and really couldn’t care less what she has bought cos her kids like the little pup ,and that’s a recipe for disaster !

That’s not strictly true. The dogs that are, or were the focus of the initial discussion are unpredictable. I have known people who have owned them, I have been told by them that these dogs can and have just snapped for no discernible reason.
I would class myself as a responsible person, and although I don’t own a dog now, the only reason being because my work commitments would make it unfair on the dog, I would still class myself as an experienced dog owner.
I love dogs generally, would love to have one but can’t, for the reasons stated above.
However, even if I had all the time in the world, there are certain dogs I wouldn’t have given, among which, the XL bully or American Bulldog, I would not trust either breed as far as I could throw them. Plus, I have a 14 year old daughter, a 3 year old grandson, neither of which I would ever leave alone with a dog.
But, even if you are there, the dogs I mention above could do serious damage if they attack, anyone who owns a dog will tell you, irrespective of how quick or strong you are, you cannot move as quickly as a motivated dog intent on attacking.
I’ve been bitten four times, not by dogs I’ve owned, once by a Labrador, another nip from a Doberman, when I was somewhere I wouldn’t have been, retrieving a football from a garden, by a border terrier I tried to stop running onto a busy road and a chihuahua (a breed I hate, with the exception of one my brother owned)
I quite like staffies, I have read on here that some have had negative experiences but I can only speak from my own.
All dogs can bite.
As for the dogs some described as ‘fighting dogs’ most of the aggression actually comes from the breeds they were mixed with, mostly terriers. Having owned a terrier I can state that’s they are aggressive, the difference being I was confident I could have either restrained mine or ‘beat it in a fight’ as some have described. Still lightning quick mind, so required supervision.
The modern Staffordshire bull terrier. Bull terriers bear no resemblance to the old fighting dogs, which were referred to mostly as a Bull & Terrier, whereas XLs and Maerican bulls do, in size an temperament. Plus, the breeding is irresponsible and aggressive dogs are sought for stud/bitch etc.
I would welcome the banning of XL bullies/bullys or the American bulldog.
If you are allowed one, then surely I should be allowed to carry a sword or crossbow etc to defend myself/ family, sounds stupid I know but so does the idea of owning one of these dogs as a pet!

 

[Millbrook]

When I was a 15 year old paperboy delivering papers in Church Lane in Acklam I got attacked by small terrier type dog.

I managed to get the paper bag in front of me and it took a bite of it rather than my leg. An 9ish year old girl came running around the house and immediately got it under control - looked as though butter wouldn't melt in it's jaws.

All dogs have the potential to cause damage even if the owners are responsible. Proper owners realise that and manage their dogs accordingly but I would maintain that dogs like the XL Bully need to be strictly controlled. Personally I would ban them.

PS got attacked by a cat once on the paper round and that was scarier than the dog but easier to get away from - a cat in full attack mode is a sight you don't want to see.

 

[TeessideCleveland]

I would maintain that dogs like the XL Bully need to be strictly controlled. Personally I would ban them

That's what's happening. They are being banned, but existing ones will have an amnesty where they are controlled

 

[Aztec chimera]

Tbf its easy to see why isn't it? Cause there's been multiple recent news stories about exactly that breed suddenly attacking people or children.

@Aztec chimera - genuine question, not trolling, do the stories in the news make you worry about your step daughters families having these dogs? I know they're family pets, but so are most dogs that end up in these stories until one day something goes wrong. Nobody gets a dog intending for it to attack their own kids.

No, it doesn't worry me. None of them are small kids and the dogs have been brought up properly. Not as a show of someone trying to show how hard they are because "look at my dog, i must be hard"

 

[TeessideCleveland]

Both of my step daughters have XL bullies. Can only speak of my oldest step daughter as I don't see much of the younger one. No falling out she's just a bit of a quiet one. Their mother died last year and the oldest got an XL bully about 6 months ago. She has 3 kids and having the dog has brought them all back together as a family again after the tragic loss of their mam and nana. Its given them a focus and something to take their minds of the sad things. He's a lovely dog and they adore him. Now they have the prospect of him being seized by the police and losing a valued family member.

Hopefully the amnesty will put their minds to rest about that

 

[Scrote]

Let’s talk sense here ,no dog just suddenly goes from being a friendly placid family friend ,to being an out of control beast .

This is exactly why dog-owners shouldn't ever be involved in setting laws around dog-ownership.

I have childhood trauma from a dog attack and react involuntarily when I see a dog I'm not expecting to meet.

Dog's sense this from quite a distance and almost always come at me - not always aggressively but it's been often enough over the years to reinforce my wariness.

Every owner - without fail - has apologised and said their dog has never done that before which is why they think it's "under control" despite being 10 yards away and not leashed.

Every dog has the potential to just go berserk for no reason. Anyone thinking otherwise shouldn't be allowed to own a dog.

 

[Wez68]

This is exactly why dog-owners shouldn't ever be involved in setting laws around dog-ownership.

I have childhood trauma from a dog attack and react involuntarily when I see a dog I'm not expecting to meet.

Dog's sense this from quite a distance and almost always come at me - not always aggressively but it's been often enough over the years to reinforce my wariness.

Every owner - without fail - has apologised and said their dog has never done that before which is why they think it's "under control" despite being 10 yards away and not leashed.

Every dog has the potential to just go berserk for no reason. Anyone thinking otherwise shouldn't be allowed to own a dog.

No different to every person on this earth having the potential to go berserk ,which is true ,so maybe we all just lock our doors and live alone for that reasoning ?

 

[Scrote]

No different to every person on this earth having the potential to go berserk ,which is true ,so maybe we all just lock our doors and live alone for that reasoning ?

And that again just about sums up dog-owners.

Dog's ARE NOT people.

 

[TeessideCleveland]

And that again just about sums up dog-owners.

Whatever the comment was - good bad or indifferent - all dog owners are the same?

 

[Wez68]

And that again just about sums up dog-owners.

Dog's ARE NOT people.

What a load of b***ks

 

[Priv]

And that again just about sums up dog-owners.

Dog's ARE NOT people.

No they aren’t but they are more genuine, honest and safer to be around than other people.

 

[SuperStu]

No different to every person on this earth having the potential to go berserk ,which is true ,so maybe we all just lock our doors and live alone for that reasoning ?

We do all lock our doors though? don't we? Asking to get burgled if you're leaving your front door unlocked.

 

[Wez68]

We do all lock our doors though? don't we? Asking to get burgled if you're leaving your front door unlocked.

Not if you have a killer dog inside

 

[Scrote]

What a load of b***ks

So you're saying dogs are people?

Whatever the comment was - good bad or indifferent - all dog owners are the same?

It's a generalistion but, yes, in my experience the vast majority of dog-owners are very similar in their relationship with their pet.

No they aren’t but they are more genuine, honest and safer to be around than other people.

Which is a completely different discussion.

I'm pretty sure dogs are safer to be around than grizzly bears but I don't run into many grizzly bears on Teesside.

 

[MolteniArcore]

I has never seen an XL Bully before they came up in the news recently. I was amazed at the size of them, especially their heads.

I am not sure why anyone would get one of these if they have children in the house. I would be really worried that if the dog turned it would kill one of them.

That would also go for any large breed though, I’m not sure I personally would have a large dog with children in the house.

And yes, 99% of large dogs with the correct training are safe, I would just be worried that mine was the 1%.

Having read all of the posts on this thread I think there needs to be a change in the law for all dogs, very much like @outoftown suggests in his post:

All dogs should be on a lead , unless in designated spaces where it's off lead allowed.
If it's off lead in a non designated space , it's actions should be if you had yourself committed them.
If your dog is in an ' off lead allowed ' space, you are responsible for the actions of your dog , at least comparable with driving .

In your home counts as ' on lead space ' ..
If your dog slips it's lead / escapes the garden / goes radge in your house and wrecks a child .. you as owner are responsible as if you had caused the injury.

Own a dog with more potential, do more time if it goes wrong .
It'll never happen though

A friend of mine has just got a Rotty and he has 2 small kids in the house. It wouldn’t be my choice of dog. But each to their own.

I see the owner of the most recent attack has been charged with manslaughter. I wonder if that will stick or be downgraded somehow. Has a dog owner ever been prosecuted for manslaughter??