The National Farmers' Union (NFU) said they need up to 70,000 fruit and vegetable pickers

[boromike85]

Who are the folk demanding the cheap fruit and veg Coops?

Supermarkets to keep their costs down and consumers who are happy for them to do it.

There has been a big push in recent years to improve farming habits such as free range eggs and chicken. We as consumers are happy to pay a bit more for that. That has come from raising awareness by activists, chefs and the media etc. Why can't we pay a bit more for free range employees instead of "caging" them in shipping containers.

 

[SmallTown]

It isn't a government problem. It is a farmers doing things as cheaply as possible problem.

Why aren't you asking what the farmers are going to do when they can no longer import unskilled EU migrants? If you don't know by now then the answer is that they'll have to employ those people that currently won't do it for the pittance minus accommodation costs that they currently offer and will have to increase their compensation package.



From the link I posted above is the pay page. They are offering 50p per hour above minimum wage but then there's over £200 per month of accommodation costs to come off that for the luxury of a shared shipping container with 5 strangers.

https://www.broadwaterfarm.biz/summer-fruit-picking-uk/

They will be selling food and everything else these people need at inflated prices from the onsite shop as well. It is obvious why they prefer importing labour and it is disgusting that we allow it to happen just to get cheaper fruit and veg and to line the pockets of farmers and supermarkets.

* Edited because I was looking at last year's minimum wage figures.

Ah the standard Brexit response: blame someone else not the government.
So I’ll ask again: what were the government going to do when this exact same problem occurred in Jan 2021? Why can’t they do that now?

They’ve “Got brexit done” which implies they have planned for this?

 

[Tryasize10]

Of course they are badly needed because they will only pay the absolute minimum and they won't accept people driving in. They want them living on site so they can claim back half of the pittance they pay in "accommodation" costs. They want people who can't speak the language and don't know the system so they won't get reported for breaking every rule in the book.

You are effectively describing modern day slavery.

 

[Paterson]

I hope they don't fall ill. We only have a third of the ICU beds per person that they have in Romania.

 

[Bargin_Basement]

Cooper you'll never win your argument, you're trying to put your points across to a man who once complained he's having to pay more for his immigrant cleaners because of Brexit.

Then he's backed up by his middle class socialist chums finger pointing at the lower/working class for not volunteering to step up and help do a job none of them are prepared to do themselves.

As for what are the government going to do, it's not up to them to hand walk every farmer through the ins and outs of running their farms. It's called responsibility, farmers need to take some of it they've had over 3 years knowing their pool of cheap labour was going to dry up and it looks like they've continued taking subsidies and done nothing.

Some are quick to point the finger at the government how about blaming those not preparing for cheap, foreign labour stopping.

 

[boromike85]

Ah the standard Brexit response: blame someone else not the government.
So I’ll ask again: what were the government going to do when this exact same problem occurred in Jan 2021? Why can’t they do that now?

They’ve “Got brexit done” which implies they have planned for this?

The standard SmallTown response of ignore and deflect. It isn't a government problem. They don't control these businesses. The consequence of farmers not getting the staff they need is not being able to sell their product. They have an "oven ready" solution for this problem. They don't need government intervention. It's called paying a fair F***ing wage and treating employees as humans, not battery hens.

There's no training involved, it's not the same as the nurse or doctor shortage which are posts which require years of study, a degree and training. We don't need to import specialists. It involves picking fruit from a tree, literally anyone can do the job.

 

[SmallTown]

The standard SmallTown response of ignore and deflect. It isn't a government problem. They don't control these businesses. The consequence of farmers not getting the staff they need is not being able to sell their product. They have an "oven ready" solution for this problem. They don't need government intervention. It's called paying a fair **** wage and treating employees as humans, not battery hens.

There's no training involved, it's not the same as the nurse or doctor shortage which are posts which require years of study, a degree and training. We don't need to import specialists. It involves picking fruit from a tree, literally anyone can do the job.

I'm not deflecting though it's a genuine question. This problem we have now we would still have had in January. You have explained why it's a problem and I get that. My point is we knew it was coming. If you knew what the problem was going to be, the government must have known too.

Given they have got Brexit done I assume they have planned how to address the problem. Why don't they just put that plan in place now?

 

[boromike85]

I'm not deflecting though it's a genuine question. This problem we have now we would still have had in January. You have explained why it's a problem and I get that. My point is we knew it was coming. If you knew what the problem was going to be, the government must have known too.

Given they have got Brexit done I assume they have planned how to address the problem. Why don't they just put that plan in place now?

What are you on about? You've ignored it again. This isn't the government's problem. It is a problem for farmers.

Why should the government have special measures for an industry that can solve their own problems? They are already subsidised. Why should they get additional government assistance for dodgy business practices?

One of the benefits of Brexit is wage inflation for the lowest paid but you seem to think that the government should prevent that benefit from being realised.

 

[TeessideCleveland]

Farage and his mob hated these people, they are heroes now making sure there is food available.

I hope these awful Brexit barsted people have took notice of these brave Romanians.

UTRP

Not a chance
And I'm sure the ones on benefits who live near enough won't be racing to apply to work there

 

[SmallTown]

What are you on about? You've ignored it again. This isn't the government's problem. It is a problem for farmers.

Why should the government have special measures for an industry that can solve their own problems? They are already subsidised. Why should they get additional government assistance for dodgy business practices?

One of the benefits of Brexit is wage inflation for the lowest paid but you seem to think that the government should prevent that benefit from being realised.

So, in short, the government where happy for us to run out of fruit in January?

I'm glad you've clarified that. Seems negligent to me though.

 

[boromike85]

So, in short, the government where happy for us to run out of fruit in January?

I'm glad you've clarified that. Seems negligent to me though.

Why would we run out of fruit? Are you genuinely an idiot or are you just pretending?

 

[TeessideCleveland]

See the job advert above as to why people in this country won't do the work based on that.

It's hypocrisy at it's finest to have a pop at people who voted for Brexit and support employers who are practically supporting slave labour.

Again advertise these jobs at least the minimum wage and guarantee health and safety and see what response you get. Clearly remainers are happy to exploit EU workers, being underpaid and living in poor conditions so they can keep a few pence off their fruit

'advertise these jobs at least the minimum wage and guarantee health and safety'

As it's well publicised then I would assume steps will be taken by the government to ensure these are met
If not why not?

 

[SmallTown]

Why would we run out of fruit? Are you genuinely an idiot or are you just pretending?

Ok I’ll explain it to you as clear as I can, I know brexiteers struggle with coherent thought so I’ll try and be clear:

we are currently having to import fruit pickers from Romania because we don’t have enough.

After January we WONT be able to import them from Romania so we’ll have to use our own. You explain the farmers currently won’t allow that because it’s not cheap labour. My point is the government would have to ensure that COULD happen in January or we’d have no fruit pickers and therefore no fruit.

I just asked we we can’t carry out whatever plan they had to ensure farmers employed Britons post brexit now, when we need it most?

 

[boromike85]

Ok I’ll explain it to you as clear as I can, I know brexiteers struggle with coherent thought so I’ll try and be clear

I'll try and explain, again, why you are asking the wrong question. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't a moron and you are making your point instead because it suits your agenda.

After January we WONT be able to import them from Romania so we’ll have to use our own. You explain the farmers currently won’t allow that because it’s not cheap labour. My point is the government would have to ensure that COULD happen in January or we’d have no fruit pickers and therefore no fruit.

The farmers won't pay more under the current system because they don't have to. The current system of importing slaves suits them. Remove that ability and they have two options. Stop farming because it's unaffordable or pay higher wages and provide better conditions. They aren't going to shut down completely so they will have to go for the second option.

Again. This has nothing to do with the government and it is the exact same situation with your cleaner. You want a cleaner then you pay the new going rate now that you can't import people to do it for a pittance

 

[Cooper671]

It’s like banging your head against a brick wall!!

1. Farmers are CHOOSING to fly the Romanians in. Supermarkets have recruited 1000s of people on mass but farmers aren’t able to recruit anyone? Highly unlikely. More likely no effort has been made to recruit workers on a fair wage and health and safety conditions. They choosing to bring in cheap labour and house them in shipping containers (good luck social distancing)

2 This Brexit plan you keep harping back to. I have already told you there is no one in the DWP able to help people into these jobs at the moment. If there wasn’t a pandemic work coaches could move people within 90 mins of these farms in to the job roles. That can’t be done at the moment as I’ve already explained but you ignored.

3. farmers have had more than enough notice that they couldn’t continue using slave labour and would have to pay a fair wage. They have chosen not too. If you support EU workers being modern day slaves (like your cleaners) then your to blame along with the farmers not the government.

 

[SmallTown]

I'll try and explain, again, why you are asking the wrong question. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't a moron and you are making your point instead because it suits your agenda.



The farmers won't pay more under the current system because they don't have to. The current system of importing slaves suits them. Remove that ability and they have two options. Stop farming because it's unaffordable or pay higher wages and provide better conditions. They aren't going to shut down completely so they will have to go for the second option.

Again. This has nothing to do with the government and it is the exact same situation with your cleaner. You want a cleaner then you pay the new going rate now that you can't import people to do it for a pittance

My point, which you seem to be deliberately ignoring, is that from January the farmers won't be able to import cheap labour from Romania. If, as you want to suggest, it's entirely the farmers fault then what legislation was going to be brought in to ensure they paid a decent wage to get the 8 million economically inactive people working for them?

Why can't we just rush that through and get Britons working picking fruit? If it's something that has to happen in the next 8 months anyway?

 

[boromike85]

My point, which you seem to be deliberately ignoring, is that from January the farmers won't be able to import cheap labour from Romania. If, as you want to suggest, it's entirely the farmers fault then what legislation was going to be brought in to ensure they paid a decent wage to get the 8 million economically inactive people working for them?

Why can't we just rush that through and get Britons working picking fruit? If it's something that has to happen in the next 8 months anyway?

What are you on about? We don't need any legislation. Farmers have a shortage of labour, that isn't because there aren't enough people, it's because they won't pay enough and they insist on providing disgusting accommodation (which they also charge for). There isn't anything to rush through. See that job advert I posted before? Instead of saying we pay £8.72ph it could say we pay £10ph. Instead of showing pictures of shipping containers with 6 beds it could say stay in your own accommodation and drive in or we will provide actual accommodation even a shipping container each as a minimum and we won't take a day of your wages per week back for it.

Step back a second and think about why you are ignoring the question and repeating your own nonsense question. Even if this had nothing to do with Brexit and they were locals doing that job then why would you defend what the farmers are doing? I am certain that Mike Ashley would be doing this if he thought he could get away with it and you wouldn't be defending him.

 

[hopesoboro]

It’s like banging your head against a brick wall!!

1. Farmers are CHOOSING to fly the Romanians in. Supermarkets have recruited 1000s of people on mass but farmers aren’t able to recruit anyone? Highly unlikely. More likely no effort has been made to recruit workers on a fair wage and health and safety conditions. They choosing to bring in cheap labour and house them in shipping containers (good luck social distancing)

2 This Brexit plan you keep harping back to. I have already told you there is no one in the DWP able to help people into these jobs at the moment. If there wasn’t a pandemic work coaches could move people within 90 mins of these farms in to the job roles. That can’t be done at the moment as I’ve already explained but you ignored.

3. farmers have had more than enough notice that they couldn’t continue using slave labour and would have to pay a fair wage. They have chosen not too. If you support EU workers being modern day slaves (like your cleaners) then your to blame along with the farmers not the government.

What a smooth operator Coops is!

 

[TeessideCleveland]

It’s like banging your head against a brick wall!!

1. Farmers are CHOOSING to fly the Romanians in. Supermarkets have recruited 1000s of people on mass but farmers aren’t able to recruit anyone? Highly unlikely. More likely no effort has been made to recruit workers on a fair wage and health and safety conditions. They choosing to bring in cheap labour and house them in shipping containers (good luck social distancing)

2 This Brexit plan you keep harping back to. I have already told you there is no one in the DWP able to help people into these jobs at the moment. If there wasn’t a pandemic work coaches could move people within 90 mins of these farms in to the job roles. That can’t be done at the moment as I’ve already explained but you ignored.

3. farmers have had more than enough notice that they couldn’t continue using slave labour and would have to pay a fair wage. They have chosen not too. If you support EU workers being modern day slaves (like your cleaners) then your to blame along with the farmers not the government.

If the farmers have 'chosen not to' then why aren't they being stopped from doing this/prosecuted if they do by the government?

 

[Cooper671]

Cheers Hopesoboro - The Mrs certainly thinks so

TC - Because it is not illegal. A bit like tax avoidance. Its immoral but it's not illegal