The Exam Situation

[FatCat]

Yes, yes yes. Many are losing out on their uni places. How can you have contributed so often to this thread and not be aware of that??
Seems you are trying to down play the significance of this latest, most colossal Government screw up for some reason.

Fabio I’m not trying to play down anything - it’s a mess , was always likely to be and there seems to be no equitable solution, can you explain to me what your solution would be ? (Try and do it without referring to politics - I’ve saidI I don’t know the answer so would be interested in yours)

 

[FatCat]

Teacher predictions are the only fair way.

Ofqual said if it had not moderated teachers’ predictions, the proportion of A* and A grades in England would have leapt from 25.2 per cent in 2019 to 37.7 per cent in 2020 – unprecedented grade inflation of 12.5 percentage points.

Following the moderation 27.6 per cent of grades were A* to A – the highest level in recent years.

If you purposely over inflate grades this would not be fair on the class of 2019 and 21.

I understand why you may say that but I don’t think it’s a good solution.

 

[FatCat]

Yes they already have lost out on uni places. The ones taking their places? Easy answer - if grammar schools and private schools have seen their results go up - who do you think might take the place of working class students who had their results pulled down?

The university admissions service Ucas said that record numbers of young people from disadvantaged backgrounds in England, Wales and Northern Ireland had a confirmed place on an undergraduate course.

 

[FatCat]

Would you rather we over inflate some grades, or massively understate many grades robbing people of the potential of social mobility which they have rightly earned and instead will be given to some Tarquin or Beatrice who didn't work hard or do so well but had rich parents. I know who deserves the chance

I’m all for social mobility looking at what The university admissions service Ucas said that record numbers of young people from disadvantaged backgrounds in England, Wales and Northern Ireland had a confirmed place on an undergraduate course.

 

[FabioPorkpie]

Fabio I’m not trying to play down anything - it’s a mess , was always likely to be and there seems to be no equitable solution, can you explain to me what your solution would be ? (Try and do it without referring to politics - I’ve saidI I don’t know the answer so would be interested in yours)

Edited.

 

[bear66]

Ofqual said if it had not moderated teachers’ predictions, the proportion of A* and A grades in England would have leapt from 25.2 per cent in 2019 to 37.7 per cent in 2020 – unprecedented grade inflation of 12.5 percentage points.

Following the moderation 27.6 per cent of grades were A* to A – the highest level in recent years.

If you purposely over inflate grades this would not be fair on the class of 2019 and 21.

I understand why you may say that but I don’t think it’s a good solution.

"Education secretary Gavin Williamson admitted that the effect of the algorithm used by Ofequal to assess grades in the absence of exams mean that an “exceptionally high-performing child in a low-performing school” would not get their expected grades."

That is not a good solution.

 

[FabioPorkpie]

No. I'm not blaming anyone.

That right there is the key point of your post

 

[1finny]

I note the Tory papers response to the fiasco.
Largely muted with the exception of The Times which has the story
The Telegraph leads with a story blaming the teachers.

It appears the FT is the neutral paper of challenge these days.

 

[Cuthbert]

"Education secretary Gavin Williamson admitted that the effect of the algorithm used by Ofequal to assess grades in the absence of exams mean that an “exceptionally high-performing child in a low-performing school” would not get their expected grades."

That is not a good solution.

It's certainly not a good solution. Likewise if you're in a strong year group in any school, it could work against you. Sadly there never was going to be a perfect solution though - at least not on results day.

Hopefully the appeals process can put right most of those wrongs. Hopefully universities will be a bit more flexible. Hopefully the reduction in foreign student admissions will also facilitate those students wanting places gaining them.

 

[FabioPorkpie]

Seems a few folk are suggesting the poor old government aren’t really to blame because there was simply no real alternative and they would caught between a rock and a hard place. Poor old rich, privileged, unqualified politicians who ‘we’ elect to find solutions to problems. It’s them we should feel sorry for really... with all their expert advice, resources, and information.
There really was no alternative this time, it appears some are alluding to above, other than to ensure the privileged kids kept their grades disproportionately and the poor kids lost theirs.

 

[1finny]

Fabio I’m not trying to play down anything - it’s a mess , was always likely to be and there seems to be no equitable solution, can you explain to me what your solution would be ? (Try and do it without referring to politics - I’ve saidI I don’t know the answer so would be interested in yours)

That’s fair Fatcat.
I don’t know the answer either.
But, If I’d had 5 months with all the people in government and education at my disposal I’m confident I’d have got a better solution.
In the end - nothing would be ‘fair’ - even original exams.

One solution is to go with Teacher grades.
Yes, they are higher than normal and ahead of the norm but - we are in strange times. Cut the kids a bit of slack - what’s the worst that could have happened? Not a lot.

They won‘t do it of course because Scotland did and we have said we wont.

 

[Archiestephens_elbow]

Literally not a word about this shambolic affair. Typical Coops.

How can you defend the undefendable

 

[FabioPorkpie]

That’s fair Fatcat.
I don’t know the answer either.
But, If I’d had 5 months with all the people in government and education at my disposal I’m confident I’d have got a better solution.
.

This was along the lines of my original reply, (which I edited as initially thought better of engaging and gave Fatcat the benefit of the doubt)
It’s not for us to find equitable solutions - that’s what the rich, privileged, unqualified politicians that ‘we’ elect are supposed to be doing, using all available resources, information and expert advice to find solutions to problems that are on balance, the best option for us all.
We can still express anger that they have not done this and created yet another cluster-**** of epic proportions. (But criticise the government in any way and you instantly become just another liberal lefty loony labour voter and can be discounted because you are politicising errrrrrmmm political stuff.)
To me, there is a school of thought on this thread (that is bordering on betraying a subtle or even transparent agenda,) that the government are above criticism in this instance because there was no solution that could have ensured a fairer outcome, other than privileged kids keeping their grades disproportionately and the poorer, more disadvantaged kids losing theirs.

For fatcat to question whether kids are actually going to lose their university places is most certainly down playing the consequences of this, in my opinion, especially given the many accounts that have been shared in the media and on social media. It’s like saying ‘is this REALLY that big a deal?? Are that many kids really going to be affected??’
I think that’s the seed some would very much like to be sewed.

Who cares, maybe we should all just move on and forget about it, right? Because those poor politicians couldn’t have done any better....I mean that’s evidenced by our collective lack of ability to find a solution on this thread, right? What with all our expert knowledge and information.....

Having said that, it never ceases to amaze me how learned and well read some individuals are on this forum, across such a very large range of topics and they always seem to be able to draw upon that in depth knowledge to subtly defend the government...

 

[Cuthbert]

Fabio - I think you're reading more in to the thread / people's responses than is actually there.

This situation is a one off. Yesterday wasn't the end of the process. When the appeals process has run its course, and when the final tallies of students - university places (post clearing etc) is totted up, surely that will be the point at which to take stock?

 

[FatCat]

"Education secretary Gavin Williamson admitted that the effect of the algorithm used by Ofequal to assess grades in the absence of exams mean that an “exceptionally high-performing child in a low-performing school” would not get their expected grades."

That is not a good solution.

Totally agree - so what is a good solution?

 

[FabioPorkpie]

Fabio - I think you're reading more in to the thread / people's responses than is actually there.

This situation is a one off. Yesterday wasn't the end of the process. When the appeals process has run its course, and when the final tallies of students - university places (post clearing etc) is totted up, surely that will be the point at which to take stock?

Possibly, maybe even probably. But that requires the appeals process to be fit for purpose, fair and efficient and whether it is, remains to be seen. In the meantime, the stress, upset and anger being felt by families up and down the country just seems to be completely unnecessary.

 

[Cuthbert]

Possibly, maybe even probably. But that requires the appeals process to be fit for purpose, fair and efficient and whether it is, remains to be seen. In the meantime, the stress, upset and anger being felt by families up and down the country just seems to be completely unnecessary.

I don't think that yesterday was a 'normal' results day. It's part of the process this year, and only once all the appeals are done with will there be a truer reflection. I think that universities will be aware of this too.

I agree with you that the additional stress, upset or anger in the meantime is cr4p.

Edit: Whilst on the subject of exam results.... I've always wondered why we have multiple examination boards around the country, rather than one standard board, or at least all kids sitting the same paper(s) in any given subject. Having multiple boards leads to discrepancies too, so I don't know why they have them.

 

[LaPennaBianca]

The university admissions service Ucas said that record numbers of young people from disadvantaged backgrounds in England, Wales and Northern Ireland had a confirmed place on an undergraduate course.

But which courses, and where?

What about the kids who would've been going to Cambridge but were marked down solely by the school they attended?

And before you say - I don't have a solution. But I know for a fact my end result would not have been 'create a system that is biased in favour of fee-paying schools and against the disadvantaged', which is what - surprise, surprise - the CONSERVATIVE PARTY have done.

 

[Cuthbert]

"What about the kids who would've been going to Cambridge but were marked down solely by the school they attended? "

That's exactly what the appeals process is for. Also, now that they've guaranteed mock results, if those kids got A* in their mocks, they'll get A*s.

It's certainly cr4p in the meantime for students that have been marked down, that shouldn't have been, but there is a process to rectify it.... hopefully that process works.

 

[FatCat]

This was along the lines of my original reply, (which I edited as initially thought better of engaging and gave Fatcat the benefit of the doubt)
It’s not for us to find equitable solutions - that’s what the rich, privileged, unqualified politicians that ‘we’ elect are supposed to be doing, using all available resources, information and expert advice to find solutions to problems that are on balance, the best option for us all.
We can still express anger that they have not done this and created yet another cluster-**** of epic proportions. (But criticise the government in any way and you instantly become just another liberal lefty loony labour voter and can be discounted because you are politicising errrrrrmmm political stuff.)
To me, there is a school of thought on this thread (that is bordering on betraying a subtle or even transparent agenda,) that the government are above criticism in this instance because there was no solution that could have ensured a fairer outcome, other than privileged kids keeping their grades disproportionately and the poorer, more disadvantaged kids losing theirs.

For fatcat to question whether kids are actually going to lose their university places is most certainly down playing the consequences of this, in my opinion, especially given the many accounts that have been shared in the media and on social media. It’s like saying ‘is this REALLY that big a deal?? Are that many kids really going to be affected??’
I think that’s the seed some would very much like to be sewed.

Who cares, maybe we should all just move on and forget about it, right? Because those poor politicians couldn’t have done any better....I mean that’s evidenced by our collective lack of ability to find a solution on this thread, right? What with all our expert knowledge and information.....

Having said that, it never ceases to amaze me how learned and well read some individuals are on this forum, across such a very large range of topics and they always seem to be able to draw upon that in depth knowledge to subtly defend the government...

Just for clarity and so it’s on record I believe the gvt have made a complete mess of this.

1. The use of mock grades will benefit few students as mocks are practice tests where you will invaribly get a lower grade.
2. The fact the mock policy was announced the day before results day without an appeals process defined is criminal.
3. If the policy in point 2 had been announced earlier it would have saved anguish and nervousness of those students who will benefit from it. ( luckily as with my godson the unis are taking a pragmatic view and accepting the teachers input here to offer places in lieu of the revised grade being confirmed)
4. Option to take exams in autumn - again another badly thought out policy - students will have to revise, get back in the head space they were earlier - again if announced sooner this policy could have been much better.
5. The algorithm approach used was messed up by the gvt - in principle it has its merits but it does it take into account the negative effect on poorer postcode areas and therefore does impact the poor negatively.

As mentioned I don’t know the answer and luckily am not paid to come up with one. As with a lot of people on here I can say what the answer should NOT be. I feel quite strongly that we shouldnt use teachers proposed grades they are proven to over inflate grades ,in my eyes diluting the value of the grade itself. Also it makes it not Comparable to the years before or after.

I expect the gvt to mess this up further by crumbling under the pressure and coming up with further policies they haven’t fully thought through in an attempt to make things better which will invaribly make things worse.