The end?

TeessideCleveland said:
Incidentally those who say there should be no more attempts to liberate areas of Ukraine to 'stop the killing'....
It was liberating areas controlled by the dictator that stopped the killing in Bucha , Irpin , Izium etc - as shown by the many tortured and murdered bodies found in those areas
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To those willing to give up Ukrainian territory to Russia, I wonder how much of their own country’s territory they’d be willing to give away in similar circumstances?

Every sane person wants peace as soon as possible, but if the Ukrainians believe and can demonstrate they can reclaim their land (which they do, and are) it’s up to us to support them how we can. Giving in to Russia just leaves several countries extremely vulnerable to Russian imperialist aggression.
 
Smoggle said:
To those willing to give up Ukrainian territory to Russia, I wonder how much of their own country’s territory they’d be willing to give away in similar circumstances?

Every sane person wants peace as soon as possible, but if the Ukrainians believe and can demonstrate they can reclaim their land (which they do, and are) it’s up to us to support them how we can. Giving in to Russia just leaves several countries extremely vulnerable to Russian imperialist aggression.
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I'd happily give Sunderland to the Russians👍
 
h_m_boro said:
I'd happily give Sunderland to the Russians👍
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To help the locals locate their keys from their new overlords… чьи ключи эти ключи? Although Russian cooking has copious amounts of dill on everything, cheesy chips with dill, urgh 🤢
 
Fattyfoggon said:
since the beginning of the year the west has been underestimating what Putin is going to do many said he would not invade etc, who knows what he is going to do next but I would not rule out him taking the nuclear option it is complete madness
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Nailed it.
Western leaders are in a tricky situation though. They are essentially in a proxy war with Russia, what with the supply of arms, intelligence and logistics to Ukrainian forces but haven't taken any direct action (as far as we know) against Russian forces.

The news reports mentioned in the long post linked a few pages back are worrying mind. Trying to persuade Russians to back nuclear action against the UK and an American military base in Germany for example.

A delicate situation at the moment.
 
Heard an interesting take that this “partial mobilisation” (it’s currently only citizens with previous military experience, not all citizens) is in response to the Russian hardliners and hawks getting emboldened with their criticism of both Putin and the SMO after the recent large setbacks. By acquiescing, at least in part, to their demands possibly buys some time for the domestic audience it’s aimed at, but it won’t solve the current problems regarding manpower, supply, logistics, hardware, command etc etc.
 
The west will now put pressure on China, India and other Russian friendly states to intervene and stop things escalating.

I am sure a member of the Russian hierarchy has been identified by the west who would be more friendly towards us and discussions will have taken place.

It's clear the Russian military is nowhere near the threat it was feared and without the nuclear issue would have been sent packing even sooner.

It's time other powers in Russia started to think of their own preservation. When the end of Putin comes I am sure it will be pretty rapid.
 
go-nads! said:
The west will now put pressure on China, India and other Russian friendly states to intervene and stop things escalating.

I am sure a member of the Russian hierarchy has been identified by the west who would be more friendly towards us and discussions will have taken place.

It's clear the Russian military is nowhere near the threat it was feared and without the nuclear issue would have been sent packing even sooner.

It's time other powers in Russia started to think of their own preservation. When the end of Putin comes I am sure it will be pretty rapid.
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On the issue of their military, I've speculated myself and seen quite a few posts/threads on Twitter about the probability of their nuclear arsenal being in serious disrepair after years of corruption and kleptocracy. The question is, how much are we willing to gamble?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1520180151992131584
 
I’m still a member of a Moscow expats group and there’s quite a bit of panic in there, people worried about family and spouses getting called up. Many flights are sold out or extortionate (I know all about that when I left!) and there’s rumours of men being stopped whilst trying to cross Georgian border. Whilst I’d quite like all these people to march on Red Square, I don’t blame anyone for wanting to get out.

Edit: a lot of foreigners in that expats group have taken Russian/dual citizenship so are worried they’ll be next for the draft…
 
Smoggle said:
I’m still a member of a Moscow expats group and there’s quite a bit of panic in there, people worried about family and spouses getting called up. Many flights are sold out or extortionate (I know all about that when I left!) and there’s rumours of men being stopped whilst trying to cross Georgian border. Whilst I’d quite like all these people to march on Red Square, I don’t blame anyone for wanting to get out.

Edit: a lot of foreigners in that expats group have taken Russian/dual citizenship so are worried they’ll be next for the draft…
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What a total nightmare for them.
 
NorthumberlandBoro said:
What a total nightmare for them.
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It’s looking like that and I have a lot of sympathy as someone who previously got out in a hurry. However, the people who took Russian citizenship swore an oath that could lead to them fighting for the motherland, as unlikely as it still is they should have considered that when taking a passport from an authoritarian country that publicly fetishises their military far more than anywhere else I’ve ever been - I don’t envy their predicament and hope no further mobilisation occurs to encompass those people (many of whom will be leaving asap while they still legally can anyway).
 
Smoggle said:
To help the locals locate their keys from their new overlords… чьи ключи эти ключи? Although Russian cooking has copious amounts of dill on everything, cheesy chips with dill, urgh 🤢
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As a former resident of Kazakhstan, this opened up some repressed memories of dill. (n):sick:
 
Ravs said:
It appears that he’s saying that NATO has declared war on Russia🥱
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Smoggle said:
It’s looking like that and I have a lot of sympathy as someone who previously got out in a hurry. However, the people who took Russian citizenship swore an oath that could lead to them fighting for the motherland, as unlikely as it still is they should have considered that when taking a passport from an authoritarian country that publicly fetishises their military far more than anywhere else I’ve ever been - I don’t envy their predicament and hope no further mobilisation occurs to encompass those people (many of whom will be leaving asap while they still legally can anyway).
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For a country that has a hard on for its military they’re awfully **** at wars

- Crimean war -lost
- Russo - japanese war - **** handed to them
- ww1 - had to surrender
- ww2- won, but could have been very different if no lend lease or 2 front war
- Afghanistan - lost

And we now have Ukraine
 
Boroboyyo said:
For a country that has a hard on for its military they’re awfully **** at wars

- Crimean war -lost
- Russo - japanese war - **** handed to them
- ww1 - had to surrender
- ww2- won, but could have been very different if no lend lease or 2 front war
- Afghanistan - lost

And we now have Ukraine
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All the gear and no idea.
 
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