Tesla drivers…

[Jonny Ingbar]

Sound, smell, connection to the road, how the car drives with and without driver's side.

For example one of the best cars I've ever driven was a Vauxhall Nova SRi. No power steering, no ABS, no traction control, weighed the same as a tin of beans and was rapid. Another of my favourite cars I've driven was a Nissan Skyline R35 GTR. Did a few laps with the driver aids on and once I was comfortable driving it turned them off.

100% this.

I've driven a few EV cars and whilst I get the advantages and the obvious ecological agenda, they leave me a little cold, although I accept I take that view as someone who is a car enthusiast.

 

[Randy]

100% this.

I've driven a few EV cars and whilst I get the advantages and the obvious ecological agenda, they leave me a little cold, although I accept I take that view as someone who is a car enthusiast.

I mentioned in this thread or another one I drove the electric Enyaq from Skoda before I test drove the superb I own now and I loved it, even though as you say it felt a little bit 'floaty' on the road.
But it was well out of my price range

 

[SmallTown]

100% this.

I've driven a few EV cars and whilst I get the advantages and the obvious ecological agenda, they leave me a little cold, although I accept I take that view as someone who is a car enthusiast.

I'm a car enthusiast myself. I agree that a v8 with a manual has more character. We just need to evolve though

 

[Redlips]

What about Tesla Girls?

Hairdresser car.

 

[Andy_W]

Obviously because a petrol car will take the pretty much the same amount of time to fill a car whether it has a 10 gallon fuel tank or a 20 gallon fuel tank. When EVs were first introduced they couldn't travel more than 100 miles so obviously that lack of range (and there were hardly any chargers available ad none of them were rapid) was the main barrier to owning one. As time goes by that decreases but it still exists. As an EV owner, even though I only charge away from home on long journeys once a month maybe, it is something that has to be thought about and planned which never did with an ICE.

I know the term range anxiety might have been coined as a marketing trick but it stuck because it is real. It might not occur to a Tesla owner with access to the supercharger network but for most EV owners they will look at their route, see the best option and get there and realise there is a queue for the charger because it is the only 100Kw charger on that stretch of Motorway. It only needs a queue of 1 when there are only 2 chargers to turn a 20-30 min charge into an hour plus total stop and that is massively inconvenient when it means adding an additional 30% to the length of your 3 hour journey (which you possibly wouldn't have even stopped for at all in an ICE). I don't think the anxiety is from running out of charge though, it is from finding a charger in working order, that is quick enough and convenient enough to not drastically increase the length of time it takes you to do your journey. If you have young kids with you or a wife that says "told you we should have bought a petrol one" then multiply this "anxiety" by 10.

These issues will all go away over time. Not enough chargers will always be an issue when number of people wanting to charge exceeds the number of chargers even just by 1 but as soon as the capacity is there to meet the demand then it goes away and it just become part of the routine. We're not there yet though. We probably have the infrastructure for last year's EV numbers but there are more and more EVs on the roads every day so that demand isn't stagnant, it is growing. Infrastructure needs to expand quicker than demand for the anxiety to disappear.

On a long journey with an ICE you're still doing a stop to fill up earlier in the week a stop to top up before you go though, never mind a stop to get back, or after you're back if you don't have a massive tank. Even someone with a 500 mile tank has probably 3 visits a month to a fuel station, to do a 1000 miles, it adds up.
That's probably adding 45 mins on anyway, when you factor in driving to and from the petrol stations, filling up and paying etc. Over the course of the last two month, where I've drove 2500 miles the total time I've spent dealing with fuelling up is plugging it in at home maybe 15 times, taking about 10 seconds each, about a minute a month. Even adding a half-hour stop each month I'm still wasting less time fuelling, or it's comparable.

People just notice the EV time a bit more, as it's a physical wait sometimes, but most of this is often at services when they're grabbing a burger or whatever. It's largely not wasted time, a bit more like double use of time, but of course you get a bit less control over when you stop, if you have sub 200 mile range.
Planning ahead with EV's does work a lot better mind, no denying that, timing a stop to a faster charger, or a time when you would stop anyway for food etc. Using zap map, rather than relying on the car telling you what to do, but I suppose you need to be a bit more switched on than with ICE, for now at least. I can understand why some wouldn't like that mind.

They do need more 100kW plus chargers on the Motorway/ major long-distance roads mind, or even better 350kW, and they need to force faster charging capability on new cars, otherwise, they'll end up hogging chargers, blocking others etc. The need to be forcing new fuel stations, and supermarket refits etc into having rapid chargers as part of planning consent, same as new homes too, force them all to have off-street parking and chargers, or on street chargers.

Reliability isn't bad, not from what I've seen but I rarely use public chargers. I expect the problems are being complicated by different cars working in different ways, they need commonality, and forcing asian car manufacturers to move to CCS would be a start, and also retrofit CCS to older cars, or a workaround. Two competing connectors won't work, it's never going to be efficient, and one will win, so the sooner we switch to one only, the better. Maintenance of them is going to be a problem until construction solves it's labour problem, but that's not going to happen soon.

 

[Jonny Ingbar]

I'm a car enthusiast myself. I agree that a v8 with a manual has more character. We just need to evolve though

I will, just not yet

 

[Loop]

I'll be looking to get one in the next few years. I think it'll suit me as I don't really do long journeys unless it's for family days out, so charging and planning routes should be straightforward.

How have the costs been compared to fuel once you've changed over?

 

[BoroMart]

On a long journey with an ICE you're still doing a stop to fill up earlier in the week a stop to top up before you go though, never mind a stop to get back, or after you're back if you don't have a massive tank. Even someone with a 500 mile tank has probably 3 visits a month to a fuel station, to do a 1000 miles, it adds up.

exactly with my old ICE I'd be spending 20 mins twice, even three times a month diverting to the petrol station to fill up. I've spent maybe an extra 10mins from a regular pee stop charging on maybe 8 occasions in 2022. Depends on your driving habits, but home charging and supercharger network on the A1 saves me a hell of a lot of effort over the year over getting petrol. Maybe 10-12 hours over the year at a guess.

 

[Nano]

Dunno why you were all driving so far out your way to get petrol. When I had an ICE I would fill up at the supermarket. I needed groceries far more frequently than I did petrol so I probably spent 5 mins once every week or two.

I'm all on board with the EV but you don't need to embellish your stories to make it sound like getting petrol is some sort of mission. It's simple and it is something that for the most part is very quick and painless.

Anyway, the fact is that adding 5 minutes to a journey is never an issue but adding an hour to a journey is. Always will be. Doesn't matter how many total minutes you save by charging at home over the year, the occasional long distance journey (which a lot of people dislike doing) being considerably extended is way more of an issue to people.

 

[Gunslinger]

I could never drive a car with no buttons personally, and nonsense like having to use a touchscreen to open a glovebox is actually quite comical in terms
of style over substance - it is so Bauhaus it defies belief

It's the same when Hi-Fi manufacturers starting to make HI-Fis with no buttons and even controls for things like tone and balance, and removing
the spectrum analyzers , UV meters etc s or laptop buttons for the mousepad completely dissapearing - , when i think of a tesla i think of that taxi from total recall, bland,
buttonless, characterless , beige, no thanks

 

[SmallTown]

I'll be looking to get one in the next few years. I think it'll suit me as I don't really do long journeys unless it's for family days out, so charging and planning routes should be straightforward.

How have the costs been compared to fuel once you've changed over?

I used to spend £200 a month on fuel back in 2019 (so before fuel prices went too crazy. I currently spend about £50 maybe a little more. Because I'm one of the unlucky ones without a charger at home. When I did have a (free) charger in my building it was around £20.

I could be better too. work has free charging but it's too close to drive. If I went there rather than my local public charger I'd literally be paying about £20 again just for journeys to see the family.

 

[SmallTown]

I'm all on board with the EV but you don't need to embellish your stories to make it sound like getting petrol is some sort of mission. It's simple and it is something that for the most part is very quick and painless.

I don't think it's a mission at all. I guess we are all just trying to emphasise the ease of charging if you do it at your destination. The fact is if you do this, you literally refuel at the spot you would have parked in any way. So yes, making a specific journey to refuel and actually not doing anything else while it happens does start to seem strange. So if you aren't going on a long journey, which must people don't do daily, it actually takes longer "dead time" to refuel ICE than EV. ICE is longer to refuel. That's the bit people don't seem to get.

Besides, given the anti EV crowd use comments like "you need to replace your battery after 50000 miles" "EV are twice as expensive" and "It's basically made of lithium" I think it's only fair we should try and accentuate the benefits, faced with those over exaggerations

 

[The_Lizards_Jumpers]

Besides, given the anti EV crowd use comments like "you need to replace your battery after 50000 miles" "EV are twice as expensive" and "It's basically made of lithium" I think it's only fair we should try and accentuate the benefits, faced with those over exaggerations

Why though, it's not a competition, brexit or a sports team - you don't need to convince the other side that you've made the right choice and they're wrong.

You'll likely never change the minds of those who still want a petrol engine, and likewise they won't convince you either.

 

[SmallTown]

Why though, it's not a competition, brexit or a sports team - you don't need to convince the other side that you've made the right choice and they're wrong.

You'll likely never change the minds of those who still want a petrol engine, and likewise they won't convince you either.

I don't think it';s a case of convincing though. One side, with People like Andy an myself are trying to redress the fear mongering and outright lies people are spreading. To explain why EV arne't what people think they are. I think that's important, given that's all we'll be able to buy soon. Just trying to make the transition smoother by explaining why all the lies and exaggerations are wrong.

 

[BoroMart]

Dunno why you were all driving so far out your way to get petrol. When I had an ICE I would fill up at the supermarket. I needed groceries far more frequently than I did petrol so I probably spent 5 mins once every week or two.

Well that sounds great, but the reality is that a) your shop doesn't align with when you need petrol, so you need an individual journey, and b) if you do that, then for many people, me included, other people are doing the same and you end up quing behind three cars to get your petrol. Having switched to EV, I can now appreciate how much time I spent getting petrol, you can postulate your opinion, but it doesn't impact my reality.

I'm all on board with the EV but you don't need to embellish your stories to make it sound like getting petrol is some sort of mission.

i've embelished nothing, simply stated the facts of what I have witnessed. You are welcome to your view, but it does sound a little like you are rejecting facts that don't align with your premeditated stance.

Anyway, the fact is that adding 5 minutes to a journey is never an issue but adding an hour to a journey is. Always will be. Doesn't matter how many total minutes you save by charging at home over the year, the occasional long distance journey (which a lot of people dislike doing) being considerably extended is way more of an issue to people.

That's an opinion, but my experience is that actually I notice that I never have to go for petrol, my girlfriend does, and I realise just how much time she wastes filling her car. Added up over the year I get a lot of time back, never really have to worry about being fuelled anymore. It works extremely well for my use case of many short journeys, once a fortnight doing a 100 mile round trip and then once every 2-3 months driving the length of the country. I save time and money, I've happy with my choice. Like any choice there are pros and cons, the convenience of being able to do 400 miles non-stop can work for some, when you're over 50 it doesn't, you need pee and coffee. Some people are obsessive about the noise and smell of a car, I'm not emotionally tethered that way. Those are personal views, but it's factual that for anyone with a home or work charger access they will save time and money, that's not for debate, all that matters is if you care about that more than ICE pros.

 

[xxlshirts_fit_all]

I’ve had a couple of VW beetles and a T2 camper van and they were real driving experiences.. loved them…
Never really had a sporty car, my last was a golf R… sporty look but pretty flat engine but still a good drive..

The electric car is very nice to drive but I understand how people think they’re cold..
For me it’s a company car and I get benefit from driving it…

 

[Nano]

Well that sounds great, but the reality is that a) your shop doesn't align with when you need petrol, so you need an individual journey, and b) if you do that, then for many people, me included, other people are doing the same and you end up quing behind three cars to get your petrol. Having switched to EV, I can now appreciate how much time I spent getting petrol, you can postulate your opinion, but it doesn't impact my reality.


i've embelished nothing, simply stated the facts of what I have witnessed. You are welcome to your view, but it does sound a little like you are rejecting facts that don't align with your premeditated stance.


That's an opinion, but my experience is that actually I notice that I never have to go for petrol, my girlfriend does, and I realise just how much time she wastes filling her car. Added up over the year I get a lot of time back, never really have to worry about being fuelled anymore. It works extremely well for my use case of many short journeys, once a fortnight doing a 100 mile round trip and then once every 2-3 months driving the length of the country. I save time and money, I've happy with my choice

It's not a premeditated stance. I own an EV. I am offering a balanced view from the perspective of an owner because this thread is full of anti-EV and evangelical EV owners and I assume people that are somewhere in the middle would appreciate an experienced opinion and not just the salesman's pitch.

We have an ICE and an EV. The EV is used for 90% of our journeys but I use the ICE for my days in the office sometimes. I had to fill up just last week. The petrol station at Tesco was 2 minutes drive from where I park at work and on my route home, there was no queue and I paid at the pump. It was a detour of less than 5 mins, probably closer to 3 mins. It's just not the ordeal you are making it out to be. I was slightly offended by the price I had to pay for petrol but the inconvenience of having to fill up was as minor as could be. I also didn't have to load an app when I got in my car to see where the best place to stop on my journey would be. I knew the Tesco one would have enough pumps and they'd all be working and if one wasn't then the one next to it would be rather than having to drive to the next services or wait 45 mins. I've owned an ICE car for the majority of my adult life and an EV for 1 year and I have already had more occasions where I've turned up at a charger and had to go somewhere else than I have had turned up at a petrol station and had to go somewhere else. I went to Cornwall for a week last year and there were no chargers anywhere. I had to plan days out around finding a charger. IT was a nightmare.

Charging an EV away from home isn't frictionless. It is a hassle. There's no need to sell it as easier than petrol because it isn't. It's far less hassle owning a petrol car. EVs have loads of positives and are way better than ICE in many ways. They don't need to be better than ICE on every single thing for them to be better. I would say that the downsides of public charging aren't big enough to make the experience of owning an EV negative. It is still a massively positive experience. If I was needing them multiple times a week I might change my mind but my occasional issues on long journeys are infrequent enough that it doesn't bother me.

 

[xxlshirts_fit_all]

Not read all the replies here but what does ICE stand for always thought it was ’in car entertainment… ’

 

[SmallTown]

We have an ICE and an EV. The EV is used for 90% of our journeys but I use the ICE for my days in the office sometimes. I had to fill up just last week. The petrol station at Tesco was 2 minutes drive from where I park at work and on my route home, there was no queue and I paid at the pump. It was a detour of less than 5 mins, probably closer to 3 mins. It's just not the ordeal you are making it out to be.

It's far less hassle owning a petrol car.

For the first line I think you are both saying the same thing. Just one positive and one negative. the truth is you DID lose 5 minutes. Which you wouldn't have lost had you refused at thew place you were going to . That might not seem much but say people keep their car for 5 years, that's a lot of 5 minutes's

Second line I honestly disagree for most people. 75% of people in this country have access to off street parking and the average journey is 8 miles. Therefore in the majority of cases (not all) it's easier to own an EV. Refuelling is done whilst you sleep or work. Not by talking a separate journey (even if it is only 5 minutes long)

I agree about public charging. the infrastructure needs to catch up. And we need an intelligent system: AC chargers near places of work, concert venues, cinema car parks basically anywhere that people spend a lot of time in. 50KWh chargers at supermarkets, town centres, anywhere people spend short amounts of time parking in and fast chargers on all major routes. Oh and crucially: street based parking like the schemes they have near me, slow AC charging in lampposts.

 

[SmallTown]

Not read all the replies here but what does ICE stand for always thought it was ’in car entertainment… ’

Internal Combustion Engine