Redlips
Well-known member
Hairdresser car.What about Tesla Girls?
Hairdresser car.What about Tesla Girls?
On a long journey with an ICE you're still doing a stop to fill up earlier in the week a stop to top up before you go though, never mind a stop to get back, or after you're back if you don't have a massive tank. Even someone with a 500 mile tank has probably 3 visits a month to a fuel station, to do a 1000 miles, it adds up.Obviously because a petrol car will take the pretty much the same amount of time to fill a car whether it has a 10 gallon fuel tank or a 20 gallon fuel tank. When EVs were first introduced they couldn't travel more than 100 miles so obviously that lack of range (and there were hardly any chargers available ad none of them were rapid) was the main barrier to owning one. As time goes by that decreases but it still exists. As an EV owner, even though I only charge away from home on long journeys once a month maybe, it is something that has to be thought about and planned which never did with an ICE.
I know the term range anxiety might have been coined as a marketing trick but it stuck because it is real. It might not occur to a Tesla owner with access to the supercharger network but for most EV owners they will look at their route, see the best option and get there and realise there is a queue for the charger because it is the only 100Kw charger on that stretch of Motorway. It only needs a queue of 1 when there are only 2 chargers to turn a 20-30 min charge into an hour plus total stop and that is massively inconvenient when it means adding an additional 30% to the length of your 3 hour journey (which you possibly wouldn't have even stopped for at all in an ICE). I don't think the anxiety is from running out of charge though, it is from finding a charger in working order, that is quick enough and convenient enough to not drastically increase the length of time it takes you to do your journey. If you have young kids with you or a wife that says "told you we should have bought a petrol one" then multiply this "anxiety" by 10.
These issues will all go away over time. Not enough chargers will always be an issue when number of people wanting to charge exceeds the number of chargers even just by 1 but as soon as the capacity is there to meet the demand then it goes away and it just become part of the routine. We're not there yet though. We probably have the infrastructure for last year's EV numbers but there are more and more EVs on the roads every day so that demand isn't stagnant, it is growing. Infrastructure needs to expand quicker than demand for the anxiety to disappear.
I will, just not yetI'm a car enthusiast myself. I agree that a v8 with a manual has more character. We just need to evolve though
exactly with my old ICE I'd be spending 20 mins twice, even three times a month diverting to the petrol station to fill up. I've spent maybe an extra 10mins from a regular pee stop charging on maybe 8 occasions in 2022. Depends on your driving habits, but home charging and supercharger network on the A1 saves me a hell of a lot of effort over the year over getting petrol. Maybe 10-12 hours over the year at a guess.On a long journey with an ICE you're still doing a stop to fill up earlier in the week a stop to top up before you go though, never mind a stop to get back, or after you're back if you don't have a massive tank. Even someone with a 500 mile tank has probably 3 visits a month to a fuel station, to do a 1000 miles, it adds up.
I used to spend £200 a month on fuel back in 2019 (so before fuel prices went too crazy. I currently spend about £50 maybe a little more. Because I'm one of the unlucky ones without a charger at home. When I did have a (free) charger in my building it was around £20.I'll be looking to get one in the next few years. I think it'll suit me as I don't really do long journeys unless it's for family days out, so charging and planning routes should be straightforward.
How have the costs been compared to fuel once you've changed over?
I don't think it's a mission at all. I guess we are all just trying to emphasise the ease of charging if you do it at your destination. The fact is if you do this, you literally refuel at the spot you would have parked in any way. So yes, making a specific journey to refuel and actually not doing anything else while it happens does start to seem strange. So if you aren't going on a long journey, which must people don't do daily, it actually takes longer "dead time" to refuel ICE than EV. ICE is longer to refuel. That's the bit people don't seem to get.I'm all on board with the EV but you don't need to embellish your stories to make it sound like getting petrol is some sort of mission. It's simple and it is something that for the most part is very quick and painless.
Besides, given the anti EV crowd use comments like "you need to replace your battery after 50000 miles" "EV are twice as expensive" and "It's basically made of lithium" I think it's only fair we should try and accentuate the benefits, faced with those over exaggerations
I don't think it';s a case of convincing though. One side, with People like Andy an myself are trying to redress the fear mongering and outright lies people are spreading. To explain why EV arne't what people think they are. I think that's important, given that's all we'll be able to buy soon. Just trying to make the transition smoother by explaining why all the lies and exaggerations are wrong.Why though, it's not a competition, brexit or a sports team - you don't need to convince the other side that you've made the right choice and they're wrong.
You'll likely never change the minds of those who still want a petrol engine, and likewise they won't convince you either.
Well that sounds great, but the reality is that a) your shop doesn't align with when you need petrol, so you need an individual journey, and b) if you do that, then for many people, me included, other people are doing the same and you end up quing behind three cars to get your petrol. Having switched to EV, I can now appreciate how much time I spent getting petrol, you can postulate your opinion, but it doesn't impact my reality.Dunno why you were all driving so far out your way to get petrol. When I had an ICE I would fill up at the supermarket. I needed groceries far more frequently than I did petrol so I probably spent 5 mins once every week or two.
i've embelished nothing, simply stated the facts of what I have witnessed. You are welcome to your view, but it does sound a little like you are rejecting facts that don't align with your premeditated stance.I'm all on board with the EV but you don't need to embellish your stories to make it sound like getting petrol is some sort of mission.
That's an opinion, but my experience is that actually I notice that I never have to go for petrol, my girlfriend does, and I realise just how much time she wastes filling her car. Added up over the year I get a lot of time back, never really have to worry about being fuelled anymore. It works extremely well for my use case of many short journeys, once a fortnight doing a 100 mile round trip and then once every 2-3 months driving the length of the country. I save time and money, I've happy with my choice. Like any choice there are pros and cons, the convenience of being able to do 400 miles non-stop can work for some, when you're over 50 it doesn't, you need pee and coffee. Some people are obsessive about the noise and smell of a car, I'm not emotionally tethered that way. Those are personal views, but it's factual that for anyone with a home or work charger access they will save time and money, that's not for debate, all that matters is if you care about that more than ICE pros.Anyway, the fact is that adding 5 minutes to a journey is never an issue but adding an hour to a journey is. Always will be. Doesn't matter how many total minutes you save by charging at home over the year, the occasional long distance journey (which a lot of people dislike doing) being considerably extended is way more of an issue to people.
It's not a premeditated stance. I own an EV. I am offering a balanced view from the perspective of an owner because this thread is full of anti-EV and evangelical EV owners and I assume people that are somewhere in the middle would appreciate an experienced opinion and not just the salesman's pitch.Well that sounds great, but the reality is that a) your shop doesn't align with when you need petrol, so you need an individual journey, and b) if you do that, then for many people, me included, other people are doing the same and you end up quing behind three cars to get your petrol. Having switched to EV, I can now appreciate how much time I spent getting petrol, you can postulate your opinion, but it doesn't impact my reality.
i've embelished nothing, simply stated the facts of what I have witnessed. You are welcome to your view, but it does sound a little like you are rejecting facts that don't align with your premeditated stance.
That's an opinion, but my experience is that actually I notice that I never have to go for petrol, my girlfriend does, and I realise just how much time she wastes filling her car. Added up over the year I get a lot of time back, never really have to worry about being fuelled anymore. It works extremely well for my use case of many short journeys, once a fortnight doing a 100 mile round trip and then once every 2-3 months driving the length of the country. I save time and money, I've happy with my choice
For the first line I think you are both saying the same thing. Just one positive and one negative. the truth is you DID lose 5 minutes. Which you wouldn't have lost had you refused at thew place you were going to . That might not seem much but say people keep their car for 5 years, that's a lot of 5 minutes'sWe have an ICE and an EV. The EV is used for 90% of our journeys but I use the ICE for my days in the office sometimes. I had to fill up just last week. The petrol station at Tesco was 2 minutes drive from where I park at work and on my route home, there was no queue and I paid at the pump. It was a detour of less than 5 mins, probably closer to 3 mins. It's just not the ordeal you are making it out to be.
It's far less hassle owning a petrol car.
Internal Combustion EngineNot read all the replies here but what does ICE stand foralways thought it was ’in car entertainment… ’
but that's exactly my position. I'm not being evangelical. I had an ICE I don't now, I noticed the difference in times I spend going for petrol, more so when my girlfriend goes to get petrol, and I think wow, 20 mins of silence in the house. Your experience may be different, but that doesn't undermine my experience.It's not a premeditated stance. I own an EV. I am offering a balanced view from the perspective of an owner because this thread is full of anti-EV and evangelical EV owners and I assume people that are somewhere in the middle would appreciate an experienced opinion and not just the salesman's pitch.
You don't get to define how much time it takes me. Everyone is different, it depends on your driving pattern, where you live, your closest garage, and how popular it is. I'm not making it out as an ordeal, I'm stating the facts of what I see. It's only a 5 min drive to Tesco, and 5 back, but unless you go at 9pm or 7am then there are queues because it's in a massive modern housing estate, with others springing up, so services thousands of people. Your experience is different, good for you, I don't deny that, but you don't get to describe my experience as an 'ordeal' and 'embellished'. It is exactly as described.I had to fill up just last week. The petrol station at Tesco was 2 minutes drive from where I park at work and on my route home, there was no queue and I paid at the pump. It was a detour of less than 5 mins, probably closer to 3 mins. It's just not the ordeal you are making it out to be.
Great, my experience is I've never needed to charge and not been able to. The only time I've queued is scotch corner for 5 mins. In the time I have owned an EV my GF has been turned away 3 times from petrol stations that had run dry last year during the petrol crisis.....not the normal situation admittedly, but factually accurateI've owned an ICE car for the majority of my adult life and an EV for 1 year and I have already had more occasions where I've turned up at a charger and had to go somewhere else than I have had turned up at a petrol station and had to go somewhere else.
Nobody is selling it as 'easier', simply in total, for me, it has been less time consuming. For me as a 50+ year old, stopping at Grantham for a 30 min top up is no biggie because I always stopped at Grantham for 30 mins anyway. I guess when I went to Watford away, I had to do a splash and dash 10 minute detour on the way home to charge. It wasn't planned, hoped I could make it back, decided not to risk it. That's really the only 'hassle' I've encountered in 2 years with an EV.Charging an EV away from home isn't frictionless. It is a hassle. There's no need to sell it as easier than petrol because it isn't.
I lived half a mile from a supermarket, even if I'm going to the supermarket anyway, it's stall adding on 10-15 minutes than if I was only shopping. I notice it more when I'm out in the missus car, and think "I don't miss this". When you're going on a long trip, you're not going loading up with shopping at the same time, it ends up two seperate trips.Dunno why you were all driving so far out your way to get petrol. When I had an ICE I would fill up at the supermarket. I needed groceries far more frequently than I did petrol so I probably spent 5 mins once every week or two.
I'm all on board with the EV but you don't need to embellish your stories to make it sound like getting petrol is some sort of mission. It's simple and it is something that for the most part is very quick and painless.
Anyway, the fact is that adding 5 minutes to a journey is never an issue but adding an hour to a journey is. Always will be. Doesn't matter how many total minutes you save by charging at home over the year, the occasional long distance journey (which a lot of people dislike doing) being considerably extended is way more of an issue to people.
They're not cold on a morning when it's -4 and you've set it to preheat :LOL:The electric car is very nice to drive but I understand how people think they’re cold..
For me it’s a company car and I get benefit from driving it…