Tesco Coulby. No Broccoli whatsoever

atypical_boro said:
Yes I don’t disagree that immigration drove a lot of it. But is that because we’re a nation who is just more sceptical of immigration than others, island status etc?

It’s one thing to just say “loads of Brexiteers were racist or xenophobic” and it’s not untrue, but my question is “why”?
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It's an odd one isn't it? We are a country BUILT on immigration. My ancestors came over in a longboat. The mixing of cultures has always been our thing. We have even been called "anglo-saxons" is if to prove how much of a mix and match we are.

So in short, I don't know why there is so much bigotry in this country at the moment. Don't know why there is enough to get brexit voted for despite the obvious issues and, here is the scary thing, even when the world can see what a disaster it has been. How weak we are as a country from it, their bigotry even outweighs they patriotism, they'd see the country fail, to not allow immigrants in.

It's scary and I don't know how it got so bad. Maybe the empire was the issue? When we went around "convincing" the world that our way was the only way?
 
SmallTown said:
It's an odd one isn't it? We are a country BUILT on immigration. My ancestors came over in a longboat. The mixing of cultures has always been our thing. We have even been called "anglo-saxons" is if to prove how much of a mix and match we are.

So in short, I don't know why there is so much bigotry in this country at the moment. Don't know why there is enough to get brexit voted for despite the obvious issues and, here is the scary thing, even when the world can see what a disaster it has been. How weak we are as a country from it, their bigotry even outweighs they patriotism, they'd see the country fail, to not allow immigrants in.

It's scary and I don't know how it got so bad. Maybe the empire was the issue? When we went around "convincing" the world that our way was the only way?
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Lots of European nations had an Empire though, and they’ve stayed in the EU and continued to largely embrace the free movement of people.
 
exiledinboro said:
It’s 2023

There’s plenty of studies going back 40 odd years that explain how we got to the referendum in 2016

It was a failing of successive governments Labour included which is too long and boring to explain

Put it this way I would argue the 5 most influential figures why we left are

1) Cameron
2) Johnson
3) Farage
4) Blair
5) Starmer

In that order
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Not sure how Starmer makes that list. He wasn't even an MP until 2015 and I'm pretty sure his role as Director of Public Prosecutions had any impact on the appetite for an EU Ref. In fact I don't think anyone even know who he was back in 2010.

Johnson hadn't even made his mind up which side he was batting for until 2015/16 but he was a good cheer leader for leave.

Blair? Hmmm. Maybe. I'd say the global financial crash and the resultant austerity maybe contributed more and neither were Blair's fault.

Cameron - 100%
Farage - 100%

But what we have to remember is the idea of a referendum was to satisfy the eurosceptics in the Tory Party and take away votes from UKIP. Back in 2012 Cameron & Hague were plotting to hold a referendum to stop arguments in their party. That worked out well.

Cameron has a lot to answer for. He allowed a chancer in Farage to dominate his agenda.
 
SmallTown said:
It's an odd one isn't it? We are a country BUILT on immigration. My ancestors came over in a longboat. The mixing of cultures has always been our thing. We have even been called "anglo-saxons" is if to prove how much of a mix and match we are.

So in short, I don't know why there is so much bigotry in this country at the moment. Don't know why there is enough to get brexit voted for despite the obvious issues and, here is the scary thing, even when the world can see what a disaster it has been. How weak we are as a country from it, their bigotry even outweighs they patriotism, they'd see the country fail, to not allow immigrants in.

It's scary and I don't know how it got so bad. Maybe the empire was the issue? When we went around "convincing" the world that our way was the only way?
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Little Englander syndrome. We tell ourselves we are better than everyone else because we are English and look down on Johnny Foreigner. We don't really care to learn other languages as 'our language' English is spoken all over the world. Rule Britannia! The King is head of state in Australia etc and many other countries which is unlike other EU countries.

All of it gives us an air of superiority - why would we want them foreigners who aren't as good as us coming over here? Oh, unless they are doing the jobs we think we are too good for.

The English are very self entitled. And I'm English, but we are!
 
MolteniArcore said:
Little Englander syndrome. We tell ourselves we are better than everyone else because we are English and look down on Johnny Foreigner. We don't really care to learn other languages as 'our language' English is spoken all over the world. Rule Britannia! The King is head of state in Australia etc and many other countries which is unlike other EU countries.

All of it gives us an air of superiority - why would we want them foreigners who aren't as good as us coming over here? Oh, unless they are doing the jobs we think we are too good for.

The English are very self entitled. And I'm English, but we are!
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That's a very sweeping statement
 
SmallTown said:
I think it';s just aimed at the brexit crowd. The ones the government are trying to keep excited by creating a war on asylum seekers
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And it's still a sweeping statement. It may be true generally. I don't know nor do I see any evidence of it.
 
MolteniArcore said:
@Laughing Yeah, this. But I do think as a nation we are more self entitled than others.
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Maybe, but I could say the same about Parisians, for example. It's a little sterotypical. I suspect our view of the British, or maybe English is based on knowing lots of them. Some are *****, the vast majority are not and almost everyone is multi-faceted and have some good, some bad and some exceptional traits, like anyone anywhere around the world, except Parisians, of course.
 
Laughing said:
And it's still a sweeping statement. It may be true generally. I don't know nor do I see any evidence of it.
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I see a fair bit of evidence, but that doesn't mean to say I am right and you are wrong, it is subjective.

It is only my opinion, and that opinion may be right or it may be wrong.
 
Laughing said:
Maybe, but I could say the same about Parisians, for example. It's a little sterotypical. I suspect our view of the British, or maybe English is based on knowing lots of them. Some are *****, the vast majority are not and almost everyone is multi-faceted and have some good, some bad and some exceptional traits, like anyone anywhere around the world, except Parisians, of course.
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Yeah, you might be right. But then again Paris hasn't voted to leave the EU, or France for that matter. But then thinking about it I am pretty sure Yorkshire might vote to leave England! We are a strange bunch :ROFLMAO:
 
MolteniArcore said:
I see a fair bit of evidence, but that doesn't mean to say I am right and you are wrong, it is subjective.

It is only my opinion, and that opinion may be right or it may be wrong.
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My issue with statements like that Molteni is it paints in such broad brush strokes. You can't really do that and get any kind of accuracy.
 
I find the French have similar view of the World as the Brits, if anything the French are much more protective of their language and culture than the Brits. Germans even after all the race stuff that when on under the Nazi era, still differentiate more so than the Brits based on race. Of course these are generalisations but it is what I observe. Americans tend to have the greatest view that the World revolves around them.
 
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