Sunderland vs Coventry

Redwurzel said:
I know its frustrating at the moment but I would personally not invest £15m in one striker - possibly invest that in 3 strikers that are not quite the finished article or slightly over age say 28 or 29. We also need to use the loan system further. We have 2 loan players at present and could cope with at least 2 more.
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Nailed redwurzel, we need to stick with the model of profitable business that we've adopted and not buckle and revert back to type. Lets do this slowly but surely, let's make sure we are always in a position to strengthen rather than 1 year going for it and the next 5 in austerity. I like the model we've adopted, and spending 30 million on 2 players however good they may look is not going with the model we said we would go with. I do however think more work is needed on getting the best deal possible with our outgoings, I do t have insight into the internals but we do seem to sell quickly on the face of things
 
Warwickboro said:
Nailed redwurzel, we need to stick with the model of profitable business that we've adopted and not buckle and revert back to type. Lets do this slowly but surely, let's make sure we are always in a position to strengthen rather than 1 year going for it and the next 5 in austerity. I like the model we've adopted, and spending 30 million on 2 players however good they may look is not going with the model we said we would go with. I do however think more work is needed on getting the best deal possible with our outgoings, I do t have insight into the internals but we do seem to sell quickly on the face of things
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Not nailed at all.
Who said £30m on 2 players by the way?
There is a lot of faith being placed in a man called Kieran.
I’d rather put some of it in a man called Viktor.
I’ve explained how it could be done.
There was a good quote on here recently.
“I can explain it fully, but I can’t make you understand it”.
 
I don't think you can set rules about the amount to spend on a striker, depends on the player, how he fits our system and possible re sale value. We have run into problems in the past because we have bought strikers to play under one manager and then they have spent most of their time here playing under another. Personally I think Gyokeres is a player who has done well in Coventry's system but would he necessarily flourish here?
 
indeedido said:
Not nailed at all.
Who said £30m on 2 players by the way?
There is a lot of faith being placed in a man called Kieran.
I’d rather put some of it in a man called Viktor.
I’ve explained how it could be done.
There was a good quote on here recently.
“I can explain it fully, but I can’t make you understand it”.
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Indeedido, I'm not stupid mate, you'd be welcome to explain, and my opinion may differ but i will understand, thanks for the consideration though lol. Now that's out of the way my assumption, based on living in Coventry and knowing a lot of cov fans is that they want 20 to 25 million for Gykores, and 10 million for ohare. Oh, by the way, when Coventry signed Gykores, he was considered an underwhelming signing with a poor goalscoring record and not much range to his game, you have an opinion that signing this fella gets us up and is a worth while investment based on us offsetting that against the tav plus spence sale, and that 1 player who fits the mould being better than 3 that don't. I do understand, I also understand, and would be delighted if we did sign him, I would however totally back the decision not to as we also have a good chance of finding a system with the other options on the table.
 
indeedido said:
I've posted so many times on the subject.

Our wage bill has been reducing and we have shed a lot of players since the last reported figure. Our squad is very small.
Our revenue is increasing.
The base position on FFP is extremely good.
The Club lose actual money in the Championship EVERY season, but FFP has so many allowances/adjustments and Gibson has managed it really well in the last three seasons.
Gibson and MFC absolutely need promotion and the revenue that unlocks. Staying here means he will need to guarantee more in loans by £10m-£25m every season to cover the losses.
We have/had players who have no book value, but big market value and hence huge profit opportunity. (Spence/Tavenier) Fry, Jones, McNair, Dijksteel.
We have a minimum £22.5m "Profit from sale of Player Registrations" in this year's P&L. This is the starting point for FFP, or this season's element of our 3 year figure.

IF we signed Gyokeres for a fee of £15m on a 5 year contract rising to £22.5m with add ons based on his goals scored and our promotion, then the impact would be as follows.
A £3m amortisation cost this season and the following 4. The FFP impact of that is £9m across the 3 year period that the £22.5 profit from Spence/Tavernier also covers.
If Gyokeres does not score the targeted goals and we don't go up we have still committed the £15m, but still have a very good player/asset at a good age with good resale value as per Rhodes was. The FFP impact is £9m out of £22.5m.
If he does score the goals and we do go up then he will cost the full £22.5m, but the FFP hit would still be £9m. The £7.5m promotion based add ons are a further FFP allowable, as with player bonuses on promotion. He will also have been instrumental in increasing club turnover by a minimum of £120m.

If we permanently sign 3 prospects like those currently mentioned (Forss, Hoppe, Larsen) for combined c£15m probably all then with add ons, then the FFP impact is the same.
Of course we need to sign more than one more striker, but there is the scope to do that, easily.

If we are bringing the United youngster in then we need a LCB, another midfielder and another 2 strikers on top of Gyokeres.
Sign Greaves £5m plus add ons, sign Hoppe £3m and sign O'Hare for £8m plus add ons, means a commitment of £30m with future revenue based add ons. That plus £3m commitment on Forss is £34m.
Amortisation £8.5m per season if the 5 signed players are on 4 year deals, or £6.8m per season if on 5 year contracts.
Borrow Hannibal and Muniz to complete the squad.
We only actually pay more if we go up in reality.

The FFP hit would be £6.8m this season, versus £22.5m profit boost.
Or £20m across 3 seasons versus £22.5m profit boost from Spence/Tav sales.

There is scope for Boro to commit one big base fee like Gyokeres, there absolutely is.
Or they can speculate on a number of wannabes.

Even if they did commit £20m on Gyokeres, then the FFP hit would be £12m of the £22.5m Spence and Tav have got us over the 3 year period, that's how much scope those sales have given us. Not bad for a lad who wouldn't be in our team and one pretty good Championship midfielder.

It is all up to Steve Gibson. Does he want to speculate on outsiders to get him out of the debt spiral, or invest in better?
Either is better than just saving and temporarily offsetting the inevitable Championship losses.
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You make it sound so simple. I am not sure that it is. According to the manager last week he said “The details of FFP, I think you need a degree to really understand them. I think I'm quite a bright football manager, I’ve had to be, but it’s quite complicated at times.”

What is clear from other comments by Wilder in the same interview the future of the club won’t be jeopardised by the management by reckless expenditure.

Looking at Sky’s list of transfers only Sunderland have spent anywhere near on the possible fee for Gyokeres, they have spent £10 million on Clarke much of that though may be I understand as performance bonuses rather than cash up front.

So far West Brom, Watford, Norwich, Sheff United and Burnley appear to share Boro’s lack of ambition no one has apparently bid for him.

I’m sure most Boro fans would love to have him here but at possibly £15 million plus it is too much of a risk. If he gets a bad injury the season could be possibly written off.

Our resources the chairmen thinks have to be managed in a different way. Possibly lower quality players but more of them.
 
Warwickboro said:
Indeedido, I'm not stupid mate, you'd be welcome to explain, and my opinion may differ but i will understand, thanks for the consideration though lol. Now that's out of the way my assumption, based on living in Coventry and knowing a lot of cov fans is that they want 20 to 25 million for Gykores, and 10 million for ohare. Oh, by the way, when Coventry signed Gykores, he was considered an underwhelming signing with a poor goalscoring record and not much range to his game, you have an opinion that signing this fella gets us up and is a worth while investment based on us offsetting that against the tav plus spence sale, and that 1 player who fits the mould being better than 3 that don't. I do understand, I also understand, and would be delighted if we did sign him, I would however totally back the decision not to as we also have a good chance of finding a system with the other options on the table.
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Great reply.👍
What they want and what they would accept are different things.
I am very wary of Scott being given the freedom to sign prospects that Wilder then has to play.
 
Angus said:
You make it sound so simple. I am not sure that it is. According to the manager last week he said “The details of FFP, I think you need a degree to really understand them. I think I'm quite a bright football manager, I’ve had to be, but it’s quite complicated at times.”

What is clear from other comments by Wilder in the same interview the future of the club won’t be jeopardised by the management by reckless expenditure.

Looking at Sky’s list of transfers only Sunderland have spent anywhere near on the possible fee for Gyokeres, they have spent £10 million on Clarke much of that though may be I understand as performance bonuses rather than cash up front.

So far West Brom, Watford, Norwich, Sheff United and Burnley appear to share Boro’s lack of ambition no one has apparently bid for him.

I’m sure most Boro fans would love to have him here but at possibly £15 million plus it is too much of a risk. If he gets a bad injury the season could be possibly written off.

Our resources the chairmen thinks have to be managed in a different way. Possibly lower quality players but more of them.
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FFP is really not that complex at all and I do understand it. My explanation is clear.
Middlesbrough have a massive FFP boost in the sales of Spence and Tavernier.
They have a massive opportunity to buy quality that other clubs simply don’t have at this time.

Gibson made a huge mistake in the transfer activity on promotion last time, under cooking the spend and dealing really badly. I really hope he doesn’t allow Scott to speculate on loads of prospects instead of giving Wilder quality to get promotion.
 
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