atypical_boro
Well-known member
Russell?
Striker, Winger, Centreback!!
- Thread starter Heam44
- Start date
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
That's the one. 11 appearances 2 goals. Blimey I'm like erimus!
coluka
Well-known member
I though we were light at LB, RB, RW, LW, CF light on quality too as you stated later eg. pace and creativity and most positions on the pitch. We had people out of position all over the place, thankfully we got by. We are a one dimensional squad still, relying on 3-5-2 system. You can’t challenge for promotion while you are so predictable and light in experienced cover imho
Heam44
Well-known member
Hence why Nmecha, Morrison and Moukoudi only got a mention in the ‘footnotes’.
Also that, 18 outfield first teamers!
That’s two players short of two per position. Two per position, tends to be the most managers like to have, some managers prefer to have a bit less.
Heam44
Well-known member
Light on numbers? What did you want? 3 players per position?
BoroMart
Well-known member
It's a myth that Howson is better at RB/CB. He did ok, but his lack of pace at RB and strength at CB were massively exposed after the first 8-10 games in those roles. He's a number 8
BoroMart
Well-known member
Russell, Martin? Wide Midfielder
changingman
Well-known member
Yep, I think this season is definitely going to be one of making the system fit the players we have at our disposal, rather than the other way round.
I think Warnock rarely plays with a number 10 so wouldn't expect anyone in that role to come through. He's previously mentioned 4-3-3 (two wingers) but we don't have the players for that formation currently, hence 3-5-2 in preseason.
If it's 3-5-2 ideally we'll need - GK, at least one more CB, potentially a midfielder and at least one striker.
My guess is one of each position before the deadline.
I think Warnock rarely plays with a number 10 so wouldn't expect anyone in that role to come through. He's previously mentioned 4-3-3 (two wingers) but we don't have the players for that formation currently, hence 3-5-2 in preseason.
If it's 3-5-2 ideally we'll need - GK, at least one more CB, potentially a midfielder and at least one striker.
My guess is one of each position before the deadline.
Otto42
Well-known member
Agree, no point getting in players for the sake of it. Hopefully Browne and Bola will flourish under an experienced manager. I reckon a couple from the u23s will come through and establish themselves too. NW seems to like the look of Folarin and Stubbs has had good loan experience, at his age Stubbs should be looking to establish himself too.
coluka
Well-known member
No, just square pegs for square holes, horses for courses. Coulson is Not a LB, nor Spence a RB, Tav is not a winger. Warnock wants full backs that defend, CB’s that do what it says on the tin. You do not challenge for promotion unless the right players can play the way the manager wants them to play. We were at the bottom area of the league for a reason, quality was a part, yes players can do a job, the trouble is it has to be their best skillset to challenge at the right end of the table
theredrooster
Well-known member
It's interesting all this talk of needing a huge number of additional players into the squad (up to 8 is mentioned above). Back in days gone by teams would win the first (top) division title and use 14 players all season.
I know the game is faster, more physical and intense now, but equally, discipline/professionalism, training, sports science, nutritional factors are arguably far more advanced now too to cope with this. An increase in the number of substitutes also allows more players to play less minutes in a game and get some rest.
As I've said in another thread we need the right players in and its important we recruit well rather than focus on pure squad numbers.
I do think there is something to be said about having a smaller squad and making them all feel involved and close to the first team, sometimes having too many players whilst offering lots of cover can lead to disharmony if most aren't getting game time.
However, I'm also aware of the fact this season is being squished into less time so games come thick and fast, which means utilising a squad will be necessary. But we do have a lot of returning loan players (e.g. Browne etc), who weren't available for us last season and who will bolster the squad and could surprise us and prove very useful.
I know the game is faster, more physical and intense now, but equally, discipline/professionalism, training, sports science, nutritional factors are arguably far more advanced now too to cope with this. An increase in the number of substitutes also allows more players to play less minutes in a game and get some rest.
As I've said in another thread we need the right players in and its important we recruit well rather than focus on pure squad numbers.
I do think there is something to be said about having a smaller squad and making them all feel involved and close to the first team, sometimes having too many players whilst offering lots of cover can lead to disharmony if most aren't getting game time.
However, I'm also aware of the fact this season is being squished into less time so games come thick and fast, which means utilising a squad will be necessary. But we do have a lot of returning loan players (e.g. Browne etc), who weren't available for us last season and who will bolster the squad and could surprise us and prove very useful.
Heam44
Well-known member
Coulson and Spence not fullbacks? I’d agree they are more suited to playing as wingbacks, and they may not be Warnocks preferred type of fullbacks but if they want to have successful careers they’d better learn to play fullback. If they can only play as wingbacks then their options will be vastly reduced. Unless you think they are more suited to wingers than fullback, which I’d disagree due to both lacking the required composure / trickery / quality etc
As for Tav, I think the jury is still out on his best position, however I’d argue his best position is either wide right in a front three or as part of a midfield 3. He doesn’t fit into a 442 or 352 IMO.
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Ironops
Well-known member
2 per person doesnt allow you to play any other than 1 single formation though - wing backs are different to wingers for instance.
18 is light and I bet we were amongst the smallest squads in the division.
As others have said above, over a 46 game season you are going to get a few injuries and a few yellow card suspensions - 2 injuries and 2 suspensions gives you a match day squad of 14 outfield players!
Heam44
Well-known member
That 18 was what we had last season, and didn’t include Nmecha, Morrison, Moukoudi (obvs only here for half the season) or Walker or Wood.
I’m obviously not advocating we shouldn’t sign any more players.
Heam44
Well-known member
Course it does. Plenty of players can play more than 1 position. Most fullbacks can play as a wingback as well, the ones who can’t can usually play as part of a back 3 etc.
There loads of players who can play as one of the widemen in a front three and also either midfield or striker etc
parmoboy
Well-known member
Coulson can play at LB. Let's not forget he was playing LB pre-season when he impressed and was given the push into the first-team. I remember him putting in some impressive performances early doors in the league as well whilst playing LB. He does need to work on the defensive side of his game but he's a young lad, it will come and he has a great coach in Warnock who can help him.
As for Tav, he's a box-to-box midfielder for me. I'd actually like to see both Tav and Browne in midfield this season ahead of Saville, McNair and Howson, to give us a bit of energy and ingenuity.
As for Tav, he's a box-to-box midfielder for me. I'd actually like to see both Tav and Browne in midfield this season ahead of Saville, McNair and Howson, to give us a bit of energy and ingenuity.
coluka
Well-known member
Refs tend not to like 353 sytems
Warnock has said he likes his fullbacks to be defensive players not attacking. Coulson and Spence do not fit that criteria. I would say Coulson is a winger if anything. Jury is out, but the potential is there. He is still raw, as for Spence, he reminds me of Cyrus Christie at times, great going forward as a wing back but not so clever at defending and stopping crosses coming in. Bola I am not sure he is even a footballer. Is Browne a winger? I don’t think Oxford played him there that often. Johnson has the number 3 shirt, but he gives a plethora of free kicks away around our box, not a full back either, but does a job at wing back. Warnock is not a wing back fan except when needs must.
Tav for me is an attacking CM, he lacks the pace to be a winger. Wing has a good shot and an occasional decent pass but is slow of thought and reading of the game, not sure he has the right quality or consistency for our level. That can be thrown at several players mind and NW will need to eek out more still.
I am not suggesting we don‘t have numbers to do a job, but you don’t get promoted when several players are doing a job continuously in a system the manager does not favour. Warnocks teams systems that he got promoted were 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2 predominantly. He rarely played wing back systems from my recollection. He is having to do that for now as we have no traditional full backs.
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
I don't think it's a myth at all that howson is better at CB and RB. I think he's the best right back at the club by a country mile. Bog standard possession recycler in midfield. In a team of headless chickens he is the one player we have with composure, so just play him where he's needed.
Heam44
Well-known member
Refs tend not to like 353 sytems
Warnock has said he likes his fullbacks to be defensive players not attacking. Coulson and Spence do not fit that criteria. I would say Coulson is a winger if anything. Jury is out, but the potential is there. He is still raw, as for Spence, he reminds me of Cyrus Christie at times, great going forward as a wing back but not so clever at defending and stopping crosses coming in. Bola I am not sure he is even a footballer. Is Browne a winger? I don’t think Oxford played him there that often. Johnson has the number 3 shirt, but he gives a plethora of free kicks away around our box, not a full back either, but does a job at wing back. Warnock is not a wing back fan except when needs must.
Tav for me is an attacking CM, he lacks the pace to be a winger. Wing has a good shot and an occasional decent pass but is slow of thought and reading of the game, not sure he has the right quality or consistency for our level. That can be thrown at several players mind and NW will need to eek out more still.
I am not suggesting we don‘t have numbers to do a job, but you don’t get promoted when several players are doing a job continuously in a system the manager does not favour. Warnocks teams systems that he got promoted were 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2 predominantly. He rarely played wing back systems from my recollection. He is having to do that for now as we have no traditional full backs.
I agree that Spence and Coulson are unlikely to be Warnocks preferred type of fullback, but the discussion regarding if Coulson and Spence are fullbacks was in relation to you stating that we were light in numbers at LB and RB last season when of course Woodgate was the manager for the vast majority of the season.