Stokes Declaration

There will always be the potential for dropped catches and other missed opportunities.

You can try to mitigate against this by making the best possible decisions during the game.

We didn’t do that.
 
HolgateCorner said:
What is wrong with a draw?

After 5 days play I think the watching public are entitled to an outcome, after that amount of time (subject to weather) the lack of a result is down to tactics by one or even both of the teams.

A few years ago I would have agreed with you that there is nothing wrong with a hard fought draw but if we are really honest it is really turning a blind eye to slow scoring, slow bowling, fearful tactics and a misguided ‘will to win’. A hell of a lot if people think cricket is boring and this is why.
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Yep. There's nothing wrong with a draw if that's the outcome after making every attempt to win the match.

But that's not what the whingers want is it? They want us to concentrate on trying not to get to beat first and foremost then maybe, if we're in a commanding enough position, try to win it.

It's negative, it's boring and under Root it didn't even work. One defeat (arguably unlucky and to the best side in the world) and the bed wetters are out in force. Borderline embarrassing some of the comments from what I assume are grown men. Toys out of the pram.

Declaration may have made a difference or not. Impossible to tell. It's not a guarantee we'd have added 30 runs. There's also no guarantee they'd have made a difference. As another poster said, failing to take 20 wickets and in particular removing the tail is what cost us the match. There was plenty of time to do it. The declaration was probably a factor. It was a mistake. But one of many and not even the main one (I wonder if Stokes might in some way be quite pleased because it's certainly taking attention away from player performances).

Heaven help Carrick if we lose a couple trying to play attacking football at this start of the season.
 
Batting on would have gave us a better chance of winning the match. Australia benefitted more from than England from that declaration. It seemed a bad decision at the time and it was proven. It wasn't like we were 5 sessions into the game.

Toys aren't out the pram, I'm still with Stokes but I would hope he would learn from that. He made a bad decision. Own it, and learn from it.

We were batting first on a great wicket. We shouldnt have been giving Australia a 50/50 shot at winning the game going into the 5th day. We should have been going into the 5th day giving ourselves a good chance of winning game but coming away with a draw as a worst result.

As you highlighted, we were playing the best team in the world, why are we giving them unnecessary help to beat us when they are batting second.

festa5 said:
But that's not what the whingers want is it? They want us to concentrate on trying not to get to beat first and foremost then maybe, if we're in a commanding enough position, try to win it.
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We were already in control. There was plenty to of time in the game. We had a decent total on the board and an opportunity to still add more runs quickly. There was no reason whatsoever to try and force a result. If you were 1-0 up in the first leg of a two leg cup tie you wouldn't shot all your attackers on and go gung ho and gift your opponents a chance to get back in the game would you?
 
festa5 said:
It's negative, it's boring and under Root it didn't even work.
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No one is saying go back to the tippy tappy cricket we played under Root. But be sensible with the declarations. There's a balance. We had batted aggressively and it had worked. We had pushed the Australian fielders back and built a decent total. That doesn't mean we have to make qreckless declarations as well.
 
Nobody could possibly know what would have happened if we hadn’t declared as the course of the game completely changes. What if Australia hadn’t taken another wicket that night and we added another 24 runs do we then continue to bat the next morning and therefore taking more time out of the game, or because it suits a narrative everybody assumes that we would have declared and put Australia in first thing.

What if we don’t declare and Robinson gets in to the 40s do we then allow him to come back the next morning to get his 50?

What if we don’t declare but Australia then dismiss Robinson and Anderson with consecutive balls and they then came out to bat that evening.

What if we don’t declare and Root hits another 20 do we let him get his 150 the next morning and then declare but whilst doing that Robinson gets in to his 40s so we let him get his 50 and then declare.

And so on and so on……

We didn’t get over the line because we didn’t take our chances, things like the no ball wicket, the dropped catches etc and because we were a bowler down as the Moeen experiment didn’t work.

Anyway we get to do all again next Wednesday and I’m sure it will be as tense and exciting as this test and some people will be negative over England’s tactics and some people will be positive. One things for sure though win, lose or draw it is already a far better series than the last void one in Australia.
 
As contentious as the declaration was (how do we know Cummins or Lyon would not have bagged a hat-trick the next three balls🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️) we missed a stumping, dropped a catch and had a wicket chalked off for a very close no ball. Had we taken these, I'm sure we'd have won. Fine margins.

Taking nothing away from the Aussies, but there is little to fear from that team. We are capable of beating them and winning the series playing the same style of cricket. But, as Stokes said after the game, we just need to be a bit sharper.
 
festa5 said:
Yep. There's nothing wrong with a draw if that's the outcome after making every attempt to win the match.

But that's not what the whingers want is it? They want us to concentrate on trying not to get to beat first and foremost then maybe, if we're in a commanding enough position, try to win it.

It's negative, it's boring and under Root it didn't even work. One defeat (arguably unlucky and to the best side in the world) and the bed wetters are out in force. Borderline embarrassing some of the comments from what I assume are grown men. Toys out of the pram.

Declaration may have made a difference or not. Impossible to tell. It's not a guarantee we'd have added 30 runs. There's also no guarantee they'd have made a difference. As another poster said, failing to take 20 wickets and in particular removing the tail is what cost us the match. There was plenty of time to do it. The declaration was probably a factor. It was a mistake. But one of many and not even the main one (I wonder if Stokes might in some way be quite pleased because it's certainly taking attention away from player performances).

Heaven help Carrick if we lose a couple trying to play attacking football at this start of the season.
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Bedwetters?
Really?
Grow up.

What has Ashes cricket got to do with MFC and Carrick?
 
Bedwetter for calling out an obvious mistake… come in

If people were saying we were now gonna lose 5-0 that would be bedwetting, which looks more likely now 😘
 
As a team, we were at rock bottom. Atrocious. It's been a remarkable turn around due to a complete change in approach.

It shouldn't be looked at based upon one decision but the overall change in mindset.

We are brilliant to watch, and more successful than we have been for years. So, take the whole package, not one isolated decision.

But as for this match, as many have said, if we had been completely on it with our fielding, we win quite comfortably. We were a bit off, so just lost an absolute cracker. These things happen.
 
Paintolerance said:
As a team, we were at rock bottom. Atrocious. It's been a remarkable turn around due to a complete change in approach.

It shouldn't be looked at based upon one decision but the overall change in mindset.

We are brilliant to watch, and more successful than we have been for years. So, take the whole package, not one isolated decision.

But as for this match, as many have said, if we had been completely on it with our fielding, we win quite comfortably. We were a bit off, so just lost an absolute cracker. These things happen.
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Agree with all of this and obviously Bazball has been a huge success (so far). I’d rather not be 3 tests in though staring down the barrel of a home whitewash having not lost since 2001. I know this is a long way off, but still, a little worry I have.
 
Paintolerance said:
As a team, we were at rock bottom. Atrocious. It's been a remarkable turn around due to a complete change in approach.

It shouldn't be looked at based upon one decision but the overall change in mindset.

We are brilliant to watch, and more successful than we have been for years. So, take the whole package, not one isolated decision.

But as for this match, as many have said, if we had been completely on it with our fielding, we win quite comfortably. We were a bit off, so just lost an absolute cracker. These things happen.
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It’s the equivalent of saying you can’t criticise carrick because look at what it was like under wilder
 
ForssAwakens said:
It’s the equivalent of saying you can’t criticise carrick because look at what it was like under wilder
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It's not at all.

It is the equivalent of moaning we can make errors at the back under Carrick because of the expansive way we play, a method of playing that is delivering the best football we've seen in years as Boro fans.
 
Paintolerance said:
It's not at all.

It is the equivalent of moaning we can make errors at the back under Carrick because of the expansive way we play, a method of playing that is delivering the best football we've seen in years as Boro fans.
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I would argue that moaning about fielding errors is more similar to moaning about errors at the back. It's an individual error that happens. No cricketer/footballer is perfect.

Criticising a declaration is more similar to criticising a starting line up or a substitution. It's a conscious tactical decision. And Stokes got one wrong. It happens. Carrick will also get some wrong. But that that doesn't mean anyone is wetting the bed for pointing it out.
 
B_G said:
I would argue that moaning about fielding errors is more similar to moaning about errors at the back. It's an individual error that happens. No cricketer/footballer is perfect.

Criticising a declaration is more similar to criticising a starting line up or a substitution. It's a conscious tactical decision. And Stokes got one wrong. It happens. Carrick will also get some wrong. But that that doesn't mean anyone is wetting the bed for pointing it out.
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Fair point. I've not called anyone a bedwetter though. I think we just play ultra aggressive cricket and every decision we make under that approach will not come off. It is what it is as someone once said.
 
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