Stokes Declaration

If we'd taken 2 wickets on day 1 Stokes would have been labelled a genius. If Robinson hadn't bowled Khawaja when the field was set up 'like schoolboy fielding' as Vaughan and Aggers were calling it before the wicket, he'd have been labelled as reckless. Vaughan called it genius just after the wicket. I suspect it would have been talked about very negatively after the day had it not gone the way that it did.

There are going to be fine lines between wrong/right the way we play. Yeah it would have been nice had we scored another 30/40 runs on day 1 but no guarantee we would have had them
 
h_m_boro said:
I've watched England cricket avidly from the early 80s and because of (generally) how sh*t we have been I think it's inbuilt in a lot of older cricket fans mentality that first thing is to put yourself in a position where it is very difficult to lose the test - although England have managed to find ingenious ways to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory on numerous occasions over the years 😁😁

So this new Bazball philosophy, wanting to win, not wanting a tie is a bit of a (welcome) culture shock to quite a few fans.
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But have we been 'sh*t'? We were decent in parts in the 80s, just way behind the Windies. From 1989 until Hussain took over as captain we were abysmal, not just against Australia but against plenty of other teams, and since then we have been one of the best 3 or 4 test sides in the world, with a spell of 3 or 4 years where we were probably the best.

Before McCullum/Stokes took over we did look to be on a path back to the 90s but they managed to halt that pretty quickly.

late 70s/80s belonged to the Windies and 90s/early 00s belong to Oz but since then England have been very competitive generally, and no side has dominated.
 
Great Test match, whatever your view on deceleration etc….that’s why I love Test cricket. Read this morning that all the close ones in the last forty years had been won by England, partly because when they beat us they usually thrashed us! Being philosophical Aussies therefore due one. Looking forward to the rest of the series.
 
Muttley said:
Great game, shame we lost but a superb game of Test Cricket. If I have any criticism it would be of the wicket which was just too flat and offered nothing to the bowlers (a little to spin).

Oh and played in the proper spirit.
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Cummings mentioned the wicket at the end, nothing to fear for a tailender (although he certainly didn't bat like one). Fair play to Aus, best side in the world for a reason.

Our current style is the best match for these players imo. Will be marginal calls which we get right/wrong but I'm all for gambling on a victory.
 
Nzedred said:
I don't mind losing like that. If we hadn't declared when we did, maybe got another 50 runs, Aussie would have batted out the last session for a draw. I'd much rather see a game like we just did. Fantastic stuff.
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I’d much rather draw than lose.
The declaration was a significant factor.
As Vaughan said tonight, in the same circumstances at Lords, Stokes will not declare.
 
I'm all for the new mindset as I'm sure we'll win more than we lose with it.
A draw is no good to anyone really, players or spectators.
Aside from the odd individual batting performance, what is really memorable about drawing a 5 day test?
I'm sure the disappointment of a loss for those in attendance will be outweighed by the fact that they've witnessed a thrilling test that was in the balance until the death.
 
Nzedred said:
I don't mind losing like that. If we hadn't declared when we did, maybe got another 50 runs, Aussie would have batted out the last session for a draw. I'd much rather see a game like we just did. Fantastic stuff.
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Would you mind losing all of the Ashes matches in this series like that?
 
atypical_boro said:
But have we been 'sh*t'? We were decent in parts in the 80s, just way behind the Windies. From 1989 until Hussain took over as captain we were abysmal, not just against Australia but against plenty of other teams, and since then we have been one of the best 3 or 4 test sides in the world, with a spell of 3 or 4 years where we were probably the best.

Before McCullum/Stokes took over we did look to be on a path back to the 90s but they managed to halt that pretty quickly.

late 70s/80s belonged to the Windies and 90s/early 00s belong to Oz but since then England have been very competitive generally, and no side has dominated.
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That's why I said generally.

We have had some good players, good spells, good tours......looked to be turning the corner then the wheels fell off. Good batting, poor bowling. Good bowling, poor batting. Just couldn't put it all together. Good test team, crap one day. Vice versa.

But fair play to the ECB, last 10 years or so they have generally got things right (ish) for all 3 forms.

Only thing at present stopping England from becoming a dominant test force for a good few years is the aging seam attack and Stokes knee.

But for the present, exciting times 👍🏏
 
I think the Australians got away with it, the ball just missing the outside edge, Stokes not holding on, one or two other missed chances. On another day…

We were also hampered by injury - Moheen Ali’s bad finger, Stokes not bowling and it has to be said Jimmy Anderson looked forty odd, I think we need to make sure players are properly fit for the next one.

One other key point in my opinion is that passage of play in poor conditions on Sunday where we lost two quick wickets, the Aussies got lucky there as well.
 
HolgateCorner said:
I think the Australians got away with it, the ball just missing the outside edge, Stokes not holding on, one or two other missed chances. On another day…

We were also hampered by injury - Moheen Ali’s bad finger, Stokes not bowling and it has to be said Jimmy Anderson looked forty odd, I think we need to make sure players are properly fit for the next one.

One other key point in my opinion is that passage of play in poor conditions on Sunday where we lost two quick wickets, the Aussies got lucky there as well.
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Yes can't help but feel one or two tweaks to the side are needed for Lord's, where we have a poor Ashes win rate. Can't face going 2-0 down, imagine being whitewashed at home.:cautious:
 
B_G said:
I hope he doesn't do this. That to me would come across as arrogant. Just hold your hands up. We may have got this one wrong but we will continue to play aggressively and put teams under pressure.
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www.skysports.com

The Ashes: Ben Stokes doubles down on England strategy: 'We sent a message to Australia'

Pat Cummins and Nathan Lyon added unbroken 55 for ninth wicket as Australia pipped England in Edgbaston epic, 18 years on from another Ashes classic on this ground; Ben Stokes has no regrets over tactics; the second Test is live on Sky Sports at Lords from June 28
www.skysports.com www.skysports.com
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Told ya
 
I'm warming to the theory of not trying to draw. Not pleased we lost, but nowhere near as upset as the Boro not getting past Coventry.
In this era of professional sport being driven by money (much of it from dubious sources), there's more and more pressure on players and less reliance on money from spectators. It feels refreshing to adopt an attitude of providing entertainment to fans over the win at all costs mentality that is rife in many sports..
 
I definitely found this far more entertaining than a lot of the snore draws and washed out tests over the years.

But I still don't think you can escape the fact that it was a test that England gifted to Australia through poor decisions.

It might well have just ended up being yet another boring draw if we hadn't declared, but it's largely the outcome that people will remember if we lose this series.
 
Draws have been a hugely significant aspect of Test cricket/ First Class cricket forever.
We are unbeaten in a series at home against the Aussies for over 20 years. That matters.
Not some juvenile d*ck swinging and back slapping at what is ultimately failure at the start of a tough 5 match series.
 
I have tried to reserve judgement about the tactics until the match was done.

In hindsight, the declaration was a poor decision. The way Root was batting we could have arguably put on another 50-100 if Robinson/Jimmy had been able to stick it out. I tried to be positive at the end of day 1 but I could always see both sides of it.

Big lessons to be learned even if Bazball is a binary philosophy. I am very disappointed tonight.
 
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Cracking entertainment, very balanced game.

For me the pitch was a bit lifeless which contributes to the following. But not sure Ollie Robinson looked that dangerous and Moeen’s injury was a sickener, lad was putting his fingers in the dirt after every ball. You can’t finger spin without your finger. Watching the fourth innings, I didn’t think we had much of a wicket threat outside of Broad and Anderson, who did look a little undercooked (but wasn’t helped by the conditions, he’s still unbelievably skilful).

Think having a third strike bowler, whether that’s Mark Wood’s express pace or Moeen able to bowl without discomfort and we would have won that test.

I love Moeen Ali as a cricketer but it’s sadly predictable that a guy who hasn’t bowled in a test match for two years gets blisters with the extra stress of bowling so many overs. He either needs to get back to full capacity before the next one or we should try young Ahmed. Can’t be carrying so many bowlers with limited ability to bowl.
 
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