Starmer's 5 Missions for Labour

viv_andersons_nana said:
His policy was to negotiate with the EU - on the customs Union and the single market - and then go back to the public. This was reported as something akin to treason, an inherent weakness, or some sort of political cop out.

I’ve never understood this though, why a leader is categorised as weak for actually exercising democratic process - it happened to Theresa May as well. Having a set position and then negotiating from there, going back to the vote if necessary, seems entirely sensible to me. Especially on generation-defining matters of national importance, such as leaving the EU.

Sticking to something and blundering through regardless will get you exactly where we are now. F*cked.
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What was reported as treason (which is an absurd use of the term) but wasn't fully exercising democratic process, and why he almost lost my vote, was his refusal to rule out a second referendum (I voted to Remain). As it turned out I had to go away that day and couldn't vote (wasn't registered to vote postally). But I'd have begrudgingly voted for him.

Like it or not, he was ambiguous on a complex issue that the British electorate (rightly) wanted to see simplified after years of bickering.
 
bumface said:
I just don't buy into this whole 'become The Tories to beat The Tories' thing. What's the point? Replacing one turd with another. Viv has it spot on.
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Sometimes a country just needs a change. If the change proposed is no worse than the status quo, give it a go?

The current PLP is also nowhere near as Tory as the current Tories, or as steeped in cronyism. If its just about policy then fine, vote Green, but they're not going to trouble the scorers are they and we'll have 5 more years of this.
 
atypical_boro said:
Agree that the party under his leadership wasn't radical, but he himself was viewed as a radical departure from the status quo by those of a Right leaning. His biggest failing of course was not having a policy on the outcome of the Brexit referendum, which was electoral suicide.
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Brexit was a specific case that he (and Labour as a whole) failed on, primarily because there was no way to unify the party behind something that was majority opposed but a big enough proportion of the voters supported enough to vote for someone else if he went against it. We are no longer in those times and we're in a more business as usual place. Corbyn's manifestos were radical but realistic and very well supported. He might not have been well liked but his ideology and his policies were. If Corbyn could have had Starmer's history and personality he could easily succeed as a Labour leader. Starmer has the opportunity to keep all those policies that people like, he's even got a massive lead due to the Tories ineptitude which would allow him to be even more progressive and instead he's going to blow the opportunity and just be a Tory placeholder until they find someone more competent and relatable.
 
atypical_boro said:
Sometimes a country just needs a change. If the change proposed is no worse than the status quo, give it a go?

The current PLP is also nowhere near as Tory as the current Tories, or as steeped in cronyism. If its just about policy then fine, vote Green, but they're not going to trouble the scorers are they and we'll have 5 more years of this.
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Seems like you're pretty easily pleased mate. I'm not. I expect better from The Labour Party and that's why I won't be voting for them with that lying sack of sh*t Starmer at the helm.
 
Just a question bumface. In the last 50 years which labour leaders would you have voted for?
 
The country need change in 2017 the country, it needed corbyn back then to make many more people better off

Because it didn’t happen, the country has got progressively worse since. Now with have to put up with starmer as the only logical choice. Not ideal but fcuk having another 5 years of this ****
 
bumface said:
Seems like you're pretty easily pleased mate. I'm not. I expect better from The Labour Party and that's why I won't be voting for them with that lying sack of sh*t Starmer at the helm.
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Who will you vote for then? I have voted Green in the past, usually when I've wanted to make a point to the Labour party, but never when they've actually looked like winning, and its never made a difference given I live in a Labour stronghold. The Tees Valley is crucial at the next GE (I don't actually know where you live obviously).
 
atypical_boro said:
Who will you vote for then? I have voted Green in the past, usually when I've wanted to make a point to the Labour party, but never when they've actually looked like winning, and its never made a difference given I live in a Labour stronghold. The Tees Valley is crucial at the next GE (I don't actually know where you live obviously).
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I've voted Green in the past and for various fringe socialist parties too. Depended on where I was living at the time. I've moved around a lot. I'm probably on some kind of security services watchlist. I'm that terrifying 'hard left' that you're all so scared of.
 
bumface said:
Fair enough. Labour lost me with Blair, found me again with Corbyn and then lost me again with Starmer. Does that satisfy your curiosity?
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So you've never had a party you voted for get into power? How long have you been voting?
 
bumface said:
I've voted Green in the past and for various fringe socialist parties too. Depended on where I was living at the time. I've moved around a lot. I'm probably on some kind of security services watchlist. I'm that terrifying 'hard left' that you're all so scared of.
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I'm not scared of it, I just don't think it will ever be popular enough to win a GE.
 
atypical_boro said:
Sometimes a country just needs a change. If the change proposed is no worse than the status quo, give it a go?

The current PLP is also nowhere near as Tory as the current Tories, or as steeped in cronyism. If its just about policy then fine, vote Green, but they're not going to trouble the scorers are they and we'll have 5 more years of this.
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I'll be voting Green in the May local elections but that's because our ward already has Green councillors. At a GE, it will have to be Labour to try and make sure that Gibson is a one-term MP.
 
bumface said:
I wouldn't see it as any kind of a victory if I voted for a party that I didn't believe in and then they got into power. I'd see myself as a part of the problem and I'd be ashamed of myself.
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Fair enough. I completely see your point and I'm quite impressed.

I personally see politics as more of a compromise amongst a large number of people rather than 'the Dybuk party or the highway'. That said, smaller pressure parties make a difference in the direction of travel.

It feels that the right wing are happier to compromise even more on their values and therefore end up in power more frequently.
 
NYboro said:
I'd be far more ashamed if my vote or lack of it, allowed the current lot to stay in power.
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We all see things differently, mate. A vote for Labour as things stand would be me telling them that I approve of the massive shift to the right that we've had under Starmer. I don't approve of that, so I won't vote for them.
 
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