Starmer sacks shadow transport minister for appearing on picket line

BiggEggo said:
They need to attract tory voters with a sensible (moderate) message
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I know this is the accepted wisdom in UK politics but I dont think it really plays out that way usually. Seems like voters respond more to boldness in parties.

Last time around it was Boris with a big confident "we're brexiting and f*ck the consequences" policy vs Corbyn with an umm err not sure second referendum policy.

Before that Corbyn was the anti-establishment choice and Labour gained seats for the first time in 20 years.

When Cameron got in it was big hard tough tory cuts vs slower gentler Labour cuts.

When Blair got Labour in the manifesto had devolution, house of lords reform, voting system reform, rail nationalisation all included. Big bold policies. Okay he bottled it on most of them but that was the 97 platform.

At the last 4 general elections the SNP have swept up Scotland with their massive, dramatic break up the union policy.

For sensible moderate messages I suppose check out the Lib Dems. Or Change UK. Miliband when he was Labour leader. Not done much have they really?
 
WeeGord said:
One minute he's getting pelters for being too soft and now he's getting pelters for sacking someone who didn't abide by the rules.

I fully support the strikes as I'm sure the majority of Labour MPs do. However, if the front bench MPs appear en masse its an own goal; Tory media in a frenzy about how the Labour Party have brought te country to its knees.

If he hadn't been sacked then Labour would have looked daft after rightly making a scene over the multiple rule breaking at No 10.

Sam Tarry surely knew this would happen and despite that has undermined his party Leadership and given the Tories something to crow over.
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They should not be allowed to use the title 'Labour Party'.
 
WeeGord said:
One minute he's getting pelters for being too soft and now he's getting pelters for sacking someone who didn't abide by the rules.

I fully support the strikes as I'm sure the majority of Labour MPs do. However, if the front bench MPs appear en masse its an own goal; Tory media in a frenzy about how the Labour Party have brought te country to its knees.

If he hadn't been sacked then Labour would have looked daft after rightly making a scene over the multiple rule breaking at No 10.

Sam Tarry surely knew this would happen and despite that has undermined his party Leadership and given the Tories something to crow over.
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I'll be honest, I understand the rationale for Starmer wanting to be seen not to be supporting the strikes so heavily but I thought given that we saw lots of MPs on the picket the other week that he was just being pragmatic. Taking such action though doesn't sit right with me.

I support the strikes even though I'm massively affected by them. I think that Labour should be supporting working people even though that's a difficult balance to tread in the circumstances.

I have to say that I do think this will have the intended effect of appeasing some of the right wing knobs and I hope its the difference in us getting these tory ***** out. But I don't like it
 
Piccadilly Day Tripper said:
Starmer has been so concerned with not scaring the horses and winning back voters who might be described as small 'c' conservatives he has forgotten to keep appealling to the mass of voters who actually back the RMT's position and want to support Labour. This feels a bit like when Corbyn was so wishy-washy on Labour's brexit position that they lost any ability to push for a much needed second referendum to ratify how UK left the EU.
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You put it better than me. I'll do anything to get these ***** out but this stuff is starting to wrankle
 
Listened to a fairly long interview with Sam Tarry earlier made some very good points on why labour should be supporting the unions, didn't directly slate Starmer but said that he shouldn't have put MPs and his shadow cabinet in this position which is exactly right. Starmer has been over cautious, I'm very much a centre left swing voter and find his lack of ambition to make the case for anything other than centre right business as usual policies hugely disappointing, can't see any reason to vote for his labour party other than for tactical reasons, which is sad.
 
exiledinboro said:
Bumface, do you happen to know this tribe by any chance?
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That is definitely not a bum faced cat mate. That's something else entirely, and it's rather disturbing. Laughing has a bum faced rabbit. I kidnapped it once but I gave it back for his daughter's sake.
 
"Corbyn is believed to have taken the decision on the basis that Smith had not been a team player, and had repeatedly breached shadow cabinet collective responsibility on Brexit, including by calling for Britain to remain in the single market."

There's really no difference here you know.

www.theguardian.com

Owen Smith sacked from Labour party frontbench

Smith went against party policy by calling for a referendum over the final Brexit deal
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Emmersons_BrazillianDong said:
I have to say that I do think this will have the intended effect of appeasing some of the right wing knobs and I hope its the difference in us getting these tory ***** out. But I don't like it
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But as what cost? I’ve turned a blind eye at the lack of open goals this clown has missed over the past two years. I’ve sat and thought ‘ffs, come off the fence! Represent your people man!’ on many occasion but have bitten my tongue. I’ve got fed up trying to figure out what he represents and what his values are, but then I’ve looked at the polls and listened to those saying ‘he doesn’t need to say anything. He just has to keep out of controversy and let the Tories rip themselves apart’….
But enough is enough! Patience has ran out completely now.
Wonder how many centre left Labour types like me are now thinking ‘nope.’
Out!
 
changingman said:
Whilst I don't mind the bloke, he seems principled and intelligent, this may be the final straw for a lot on the left (me included)

They must really be confident they've got the "Blair swing" calculation right as they're fracturing the left at the moment.
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Principled? Seriously? He lied through his teeth to get elected and then ditched all of his pledges and sacked RLB for supporting the teaching unions and then he f*cked Corbyn over too. The bloke is a snake. He doesn't know what principles are and he doesn't seem to know what the word opposition means either.
 
If you can't lead or oppose at a time like this, when people are choosing between heating and eating, when energy bills are soaring along with the price of food, rent , transport and petrol, when homelessness is increasing and the NHS is being decimated and Legal Aid has been shredded and the welfare state cut to the bone and ex-military men and women are living on sheets of cardboard on the streets, when the government is openly lying about absolutely everything it does, says and even thinks, when the Tories have been in for over a decade and imposed a brutal and ideological austerity that has led to the deaths of countless people and presided over Grenfell, Windrush and criminality and law-breaking in Downing Street as well as forcing three of their own Prime Ministers to resign for a combination of gross incompetence, lying and law-breaking and catastrophically misjudged political game-playing, when the tailbacks at Dover are miles and miles and miles long and the airports are packed with queues of people, when the planet is on fire and the environment is in grave danger while this government pretends it isn't happening, when the scale of corporate theft and tax avoidance is absolutely off the scale, downright obscene...

If you can't lead or oppose at a time like this then god help us.

He can carry on having a pop at people supporting everyday working people and whatnot. He's been as decisive on this as he has anything since he took over from Corbyn. What a fantastic message he sends. FFS. Too scared to stand up for what is right. Him and Reeves essentially trying to bribe people with £600 to vote for them next time out. F*ck off with that. Show some proper leadership FFS. OPPOSE. Stand up for what is RIGHT.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
But as what cost? I’ve turned a blind eye at the lack of open goals this clown has missed over the past two years. I’ve sat and thought ‘ffs, come off the fence! Represent your people man!’ on many occasion but have bitten my tongue. I’ve got fed up trying to figure out what he represents and what his values are, but then I’ve looked at the polls and listened to those saying ‘he doesn’t need to say anything. He just has to keep out of controversy and let the Tories rip themselves apart’….
But enough is enough! Patience has ran out completely now.
Wonder how many centre left Labour types like me are now thinking ‘nope.’
Out!
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We'll that's kind of my point Fabio. Until today I've been happy to eat the shyte for a little while hoping that once they are out, that we'll see some shifts towards equity.

If you can't stand by the parties main principles by turning a blind eye to something so minor, something that many others were doing a couple of weeks back then I've no idea.

My question is, will he ever shift to support those who've supported him? Today has made me doubt that quite substantially.

I mean, I'm still going to have to vote that way but fcuk me
 
Laughing said:
It doesn't matter he stood on a labour ticket with the understanding he would toe the party line. He should have resigned as a labour mp, gone independent then he can do what he wants.
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I hear you Laughing, but what you are defending is tlSKS not supporting a legitimate strike that enjoys considerable popular support.
I have not criticised SKS to date, but yet again we have an out of touch, middle class metropolitan elite Labour leader. It is SKS that should be standing on an Independent, or Tory-light ticket.
 
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