Starmer closing wallpaper

Laughing said:
Roofie, I agree with that to a certain extent, and debate is good, sometimes very heated and vitriolic debate is required for change.

However, to use an analogy you might appreciate, the debate shouldn't happen in the heat of battle. When election time comes around, the left should show a united front. It doesn't matter if you disagree, even vehemently, with some of Labours policies or actions in the last 4 years. Support the party unequivocally, on social media, in the pub, arguing with your racist auntie. Labour aint the enemy, the Nazi's are.
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I concur with your sentiments.
I dont think its a matter of "the left" not towing the line.
Its the activists who are out on the streets - delivering leaflets in the rain, door-knocking and sometimes being told to "ozz off", on the stands at events, giving up time to attend meetings and support campaigns. There are separate strands of opinion and the Labour Party represents that - is it a vehicle for change or the "iron fist of capitalism" which does a better job for the establishment keeping unions and workers in check, than the Tory Party?
In my own experience its a combination of both.
I agree totally about the "heat of battle" - the aim is to achieve power.
The debate has to be about strategy and tactics on how we achieve they objective.
(y)

 
uncle_rico said:
Telling me I am "what is wrong with this country" is pretty insulting to be fair. I'll take it on the chin though.
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I said you're part of the problem which isn't an insult - how about you answer the question asked though, what do you think about a scandal involving the PM thinking John Lewis isn't good enough and wanting to redecorate his flat with £800 per roll wallpaper whilst millions don't know where the next meal is coming from? What do you think of the corrupt nature of it's funding? How about your thoughts on the £37bn track and trace system that is not only not fit for purpose, but which benefitted Tory donor's hugely along with PPE? What about the Dyson affair, or the private Whatsapp group with the leaders of largely Tory funding big businesses explaining quick ways to get PPE funding?

What are your thoughts on the constant barrage of lies from someone who is supposed to lead the country do you not expect better? How do you feel about three different sources all claiming the PM would rather see bodies piled high in the streets than have another lockdown?
 
WeeGord said:
I said you're part of the problem which isn't an insult - how about you answer the question asked though, what do you think about a scandal involving the PM thinking John Lewis isn't good enough and wanting to redecorate his flat with £800 per roll wallpaper whilst millions don't know where the next meal is coming from? What do you think of the corrupt nature of it's funding? How about your thoughts on the £37bn track and trace system that is not only not fit for purpose, but which benefitted Tory donor's hugely along with PPE? What about the Dyson affair, or the private Whatsapp group with the leaders of largely Tory funding big businesses explaining quick ways to get PPE funding?

What are your thoughts on the constant barrage of lies from someone who is supposed to lead the country do you not expect better? How do you feel about three different sources all claiming the PM would rather see bodies piled high in the streets than have another lockdown?
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No you didn't, you said I am what is wrong with this country, that is an insult.

Do I really need to answer what I think about the corruptness going on in government? I've made my thoughts and beliefs on here very clear many times over, but just for you I'll do it again. I don't trust Boris Johnson as far as I could throw him. He and his cronies are liars and corrupt and have caused massive problems in this country that will last for a generation.

You are making out like that is a shock though. We all know cronyism is rife in British (and global) politics, and especially amongst the Tories. What is anyone going to do about though? Sweet FA is the answer, because there are so many others who will stand to miss out, regardless of which colour rosette they wear.

Whether its £800 a roll wallpaper, or £250 personalised headphones (Angela Raynor), it just goes to show that there aren't many MP's who don't have their snouts in the trough. The expenses scandal showed that, and it's still going on to this day.

Just because I don't think Labour are a credible opposition, and are no better than the Tories, doesn't make me a Tory btw.

As I said earlier in this thread, Labour get a free pass from many on this board, regardless of the situation. The scandal in Peterborough was quickly swept under the carpet.
 
The thread highlights the problem , Labour continually split. Some would rather be in opposition than get behind a leader who wasn't their pick. Corbyn or starmer take your pick
 
uncle_rico said:
No you didn't, you said I am what is wrong with this country, that is an insult.

Do I really need to answer what I think about the corruptness going on in government? I've made my thoughts and beliefs on here very clear many times over, but just for you I'll do it again. I don't trust Boris Johnson as far as I could throw him. He and his cronies are liars and corrupt and have caused massive problems in this country that will last for a generation.

You are making out like that is a shock though. We all know cronyism is rife in British (and global) politics, and especially amongst the Tories. What is anyone going to do about though? Sweet FA is the answer, because there are so many others who will stand to miss out, regardless of which colour rosette they wear.

Whether its £800 a roll wallpaper, or £250 personalised headphones (Angela Raynor), it just goes to show that there aren't many MP's who don't have their snouts in the trough. The expenses scandal showed that, and it's still going on to this day.

Just because I don't think Labour are a credible opposition, and are no better than the Tories, doesn't make me a Tory btw.

As I said earlier in this thread, Labour get a free pass from many on this board, regardless of the situation. The scandal in Peterborough was quickly swept under the carpet.
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People who deflect from the current Tory regime towards to Labour Party ARE what is wrong with this country, politically at least. That is not an insult it's a fact and if you feel insulted then I make no apologies - you're really trying to equate Labour with being as bad as the Tories and you expect me to believe you don't have an anti-Labour agenda?

There has never been a more corrupt government than the one we have now for decades and decades and are quite probably the most corrupt government in post-war Europe. Yet you still deflect away from the absolute mess the Tories have made of this country by pointing the finger at Labour instead.

If you think Labout get a free pass on this board then I'd suggest you read very selectively. The right-wingers on here often throw that out there and yet I see an awful lot of criticism of the Labour party on here.
 
WeeGord said:
People who deflect from the current Tory regime towards to Labour Party ARE what is wrong with this country, politically at least. That is not an insult it's a fact and if you feel insulted then I make no apologies - you're really trying to equate Labour with being as bad as the Tories and you expect me to believe you don't have an anti-Labour agenda?

There has never been a more corrupt government than the one we have now for decades and decades and are quite probably the most corrupt government in post-war Europe. Yet you still deflect away from the absolute mess the Tories have made of this country by pointing the finger at Labour instead.

If you think Labout get a free pass on this board then I'd suggest you read very selectively. The right-wingers on here often throw that out there and yet I see an awful lot of criticism of the Labour party on here.
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What about Blair getting in bed with Bush? Creating some nonsense about weapons of mass destruction, which ultimately has left hundreds of thousands dead, and millions more displaced. Is that not corrupt in your eyes? FFS!
 
uncle_rico said:
What about Blair getting in bed with Bush? Creating some nonsense about weapons of mass destruction, which ultimately has left hundreds of thousands dead, and millions more displaced. Is that not corrupt in your eyes? FFS!
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Blair's share of the vote got less after that. Just 9.5 million voted for Blair in 2005, 800k less than Corbyn in 2019.

The more corrupt and contemptuous of the 99% this government gets, and even more so of the poor and vulnerable, the more that vote for them. Someone has to accept responsibility for that and not cry as if they are victims.
 
uncle_rico said:
What about Blair getting in bed with Bush? Creating some nonsense about weapons of mass destruction, which ultimately has left hundreds of thousands dead, and millions more displaced. Is that not corrupt in your eyes? FFS!
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We aren't talking about 20 years ago we're talking about now - if you want to play that game what about the Tories destroying communities and such division that brother would fight brother during and since the Miners Strike? Come on you're still deflecting, how long are you going to use the Iraq argument? FWIW I was always anti-war and despised what happened with Iraq and at the time I was called a traitor, told I was yellow and all the other BS like that from many people.

If that's your argument though then at least be aware of facts - there was a higher proportion of Tories that backed the Iraq war than Labour, but even since then do you remember it was the Tories in 2013 that wanted to take us to war in Syria? And do you remember it was LABOUR who effectively opposed it and stopped it happening? Using your logic of being anti Labour because of Iraq, how can you then claim the Tories are no worse than Labour when they wanted to take us to war more recently? Even more incredible is that you slated Jeremy Corbyn who was anti-Iraq and very much into resolving conflict through peaceful means.

You have a very confused position and it's because you've an anti-Labour agenda and perhaps you'd be better off admitting it instead of pretending you're not just a shy Tory.
 
HolgateCorner said:
OK Roofie....

I feel like you dismissed me there, when if you read my posts I am being very complimentary to Monty.

It is tough trying to have a reasoned discussion on here sometimes...
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No dismissal.
He`s often misunderstood.
I found the experience in Normandy very informative: actually trying to understand the vast complexities and the logistics of what it must have been like, co-ordinating and organising command of troops on the ground.

Apologies if I didnt pay enough attention to detail. If I thought you were talking schit I would have told you so and put you on "ignore".
I am far from perfect and hardly ever "right", but I value those on here who have an informed opinion.
Its positive that people feel strongly enough to to commit and justify their viewpoint.
People dont have to agree - I respect those with whom I disagree, so long as its not some ranting racist or intellectually adolescent adult.
[Thankfully there arent too many of those].

(y)UTMB!
 
r00fie1 said:
No dismissal.
He`s often misunderstood.
I found the experience in Normandy very informative: actually trying to understand the vast complexities and the logistics of what it must have been like, co-ordinating and organising command of troops on the ground.

Apologies if I didnt pay enough attention to detail. If I thought you were talking schit I would have told you so and put you on "ignore".
I am far from perfect and hardly ever "right", but I value those on here who have an informed opinion.
Its positive that people feel strongly enough to to commit and justify their viewpoint.
People dont have to agree - I respect those with whom I disagree, so long as its not some ranting racist or intellectually adolescent adult.
[Thankfully there arent too many of those].

(y)UTMB!
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Thanks Roofie! I’ve been to all the battle sites in Normandy myself including the Falaise memorial, I think it’s a humbling experience, particularly the war cemeteries, and how immaculately maintained they are, what greater tribute?

I want to visit the Somme, I’ve not been there yet but I will go in the near future, I can imagine that’s quite disturbing.

I know it’s nothing to do with Britain but I would also like to visit Stalingrad, that was a brutal battle by anybody’s standards.
 
HolgateCorner said:
Thanks Roofie! I’ve been to all the battle sites in Normandy myself including the Falaise memorial, I think it’s a humbling experience, particularly the war cemeteries, and how immaculately maintained they are, what greater tribute?

I want to visit the Somme, I’ve not been there yet but I will go in the near future, I can imagine that’s quite disturbing.

I know it’s nothing to do with Britain but I would also like to visit Stalingrad, that was a brutal battle by anybody’s standards.
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When you get above the pocket - where the memorial to the Polish General is - its astonishing isnt it. That area of ground you can see for miles from up there was, apparently, so polluted with the carcass`s of dead animals and men, it became a restricted area: no grazing or farming was allowed by the French Government untill 1960.
in 2018 the ABF organised a ride from Verdun to Ypres along the Western Front. It really is worth a visit to the Somme.
The poppies really do grow high and look so beautiful in the sun. Hard to believe that under the soil there are still the remains of battle.
The words of "In Flanders Fields" take on a living form:

Major John McCrae
2015.
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

Lest We Forget.jpeg
 
r00fie1 said:
When you get above the pocket - where the memorial to the Polish General is - its astonishing isnt it. That area of ground you can see for miles from up there was, apparently, so polluted with the carcass`s of dead animals and men, it became a restricted area: no grazing or farming was allowed by the French Government untill 1960.
in 2018 the ABF organised a ride from Verdun to Ypres along the Western Front. It really is worth a visit to the Somme.
The poppies really do grow high and look so beautiful in the sun. Hard to believe that under the soil there are still the remains of battle.
The words of "In Flanders Fields" take on a living form:

Major John McCrae
2015.
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

View attachment 17973
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When we visited the Falaise visitors centre the guide said that a farmer had accidentally dug up 3 German soldiers bodies that very week. Shocking really and all at the hands of the man with the moustache.
 
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