So have Wigan been officially deducted the 12 points !?!

TheBoroBuzzard

Well-known member
Yes, no, think so !! Seems to be conflicting stories. At the end of the season if they do get them deducted and it relegated them, how long do they have to appeal, can they appeal? If they take legal action which results in them winning the case and it relegates someone else, so the team that are now relegated launches a legal appeal..all this takes time and the season starts again end of August...if anyone could shed any light, I would be grateful 🧐🤓🤯🥴
 
It’s a strange situation, it looks like some heavy gamblers have got involved, backed Wigan heavily to be relegated and borrowed on the back of that happening which creates the situation that if they go down they’re better off than if they stay up, so they’ll go down
 
Yes, it was confirmed almost straight away by the EFL. However Wigan appealed.

The EFL responded immediately that 'Force Majeur' is not a valid reason to reduce or remove the deduction. The appeal is to be finished, but it would be criminal for them to not apply it and it could/would/should lead to the EFL at the centre of a massive lawsuit.

The financial impact to any team that was relegated in leui of Wigan would be massive, maybe fatal for some, I can't see how the EFL can drop the 12 point deduction without threatening their own existence and bringing the league into turmoil. Possibly even an injunction against teh league starting again.

Everything would be against the EFL in court too. They have already stated that force majeur isn't a reason, they have applied the deduction on multiple cases before leading to relegation, and it is specifically stated in the league rules that administration will result in a 12 point deduction as standard.
 
It is 12 POINTS, not up to. See 12.3.2 highlighted below. Wigan may argue Force Majeure, but the league have stated teh circumstances do not meet force majeure

From EFL website (https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-3---the-league/)
12.3 Sporting Sanctions
Introduction

The following Regulation provides for how sporting sanctions will be applied to Clubs when the Club, or any Group Undertaking, becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, and also makes provision for an appeals mechanism, but only on the grounds of ‘Force Majeure’.
By way of clarification the following are identified as circumstances which it is intended would be embraced under the category of ‘Force Majeure’. It is intended that this appeals process should be limited to circumstances which are deemed unforeseeable and unavoidable. In all these examples, each case would have to be considered on its own merits:
Club Income: In the event that a club suffers material adverse effects upon the loss of anticipated income streams which mean that it is unable to meet its liabilities as and when they fall due. This could only be grounds for appeal, however, if the loss occurs during the currency of a binding agreement (i.e. not upon expiry).
Default by another Club: In circumstances where an insolvency event is caused by the default of another football club. Once again, however, for this to constitute legitimate grounds for appeal, the outstanding payments must be significant enough to have had a material and adverse effect upon the Club.
12.3.1 If any Club becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, that Club shall be deducted 12 points.
12.3.2 If a Group Undertaking of a Club becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, then the Board shall have the power to impose upon the Club a deduction of 12 points scored or to be scored in the League Competition. In exercising this power the Board shall have regard to all the circumstances of the case and to:
(a) such of the provisions of the Insolvency Act, the Competition Act 1998 and the Enterprise Act 2002 as are relevant and then in force;
(b) the need to protect the integrity and continuity of the League Competition;
(c) the reputation of The League and the need to promote the game of association football generally; and
(d) the relationship between the Club and the Group Undertaking.
12.3.3 Subject to the provisions of Regulation 12.3.4 below, where the Club becomes subject to or suffers an Insolvency Event, or the Board impose a deduction in accordance with Regulation 12.3.2:
(a) during the Normal Playing Season but prior to 5.00pm on the fourth Thursday in March, the points deduction shall apply immediately;
(b) during the Normal Playing Season but after 5.00pm on the fourth Thursday in March, Regulation 12.3.4 shall apply; and
(c) outside the Normal Playing Season, the points deduction shall apply in respect of the following Season such that the Club starts that Season on minus 12 points (including in the National League if appropriate).
12.3.4 Where the circumstances set out in Regulation 12.3.3(b) apply and at the end of that Season, having regard to the number of championship points awarded (ignoring any potential deduction):
(a) the Club would be relegated in accordance with Regulation 10.1.2(b) or 7.7, the points deduction will apply in the next following Season (including in the National League if appropriate); or
(b) the Club would not be relegated as aforesaid, the points deduction will apply in that Season and Regulation 10.1.2(b) or 7.7 will then apply (if appropriate) following imposition of the points deduction.
12.3.5 For the avoidance of doubt, where a Club and/or Group Undertaking is subject to more than one of the procedures in Regulation 12.3.1 above during a process of compromising creditors (for example Administration followed by a Company Voluntary Arrangement), the Club shall only be deducted one set of 12 points, such deduction to apply with effect from the first Insolvency Event.

Now the EFL have also made some very telling comments on this scenario so far (https://www.efl.com/news/2020/july/efl-update-wigan-athletic/), highlights are my own:

The League fundamentally disagrees with the comments attributed earlier today to Mr Au Yeung Wai Kay where he stated that ‘the Covid-19 pandemic has undermined the ability to fund the Club’. Whilst it is clear that Covid-19 has undoubtedly presented significant financial challenges to the professional game, evidence of the required source and sufficiency of funding to be invested in or otherwise made available to the Club, was provided as part of the recent change of control process.

This set of circumstances is more illustrative of the wider financial challenges facing EFL Clubs, who, without a full and comprehensive reset of football’s finances, including how monies are distributed throughout the game, will continue to struggle to meet the demands of an outdated and unsustainable model............
In all circumstances a sporting sanction applies in respect of an insolvency event (default 12-point penalty). The Regulation seeks to ensure that a Club cannot gain any advantage over other Clubs in the competition by not paying its creditors in full and on time, while also ensuring there is a deterrent in place for Clubs and their owners, from operating in a manner so as to cause insolvency. The EFL acknowledges it is a difficult time for any Club placed into Administration, particularly in the midst of COVID-19, but is mindful that its regulations are to be applied consistently and equally to all member Clubs irrespective of the circumstances.
In the current case of Wigan Athletic, and, in accordance with EFL regulations, due to the Club being placed into administration after the fourth Thursday in March, the sporting sanction will take affect once the final League positions are known. If in the event the Club is relegated by virtue of their final position following the conclusion of the Championship season, then the deduction will apply in League One in 2020/21. However, if the Club is not in the relegation places following the final game of season, the sanction will be then be applied to their season 2019/20 total and final league standings amended as appropriate.
A Club can appeal against a decision of the Board to impose a 12-point deduction under the EFL Regulation 12.3.10, and the appeal will be heard by an independent panel appointed by Sports Resolutions. That independent panel will determine whether the relevant Insolvency Event(s) arose
solely as a result of a Force Majeure event, caused by and resulted directly from circumstances, other than normal business risks, over which the Club could not reasonably be expected to have controlled.
The EFL state that force majeure is the only way out, but this doesn't constitute force majeure and this is not a result of COVID-19. They're FUBAR'd
 
One slight concern is that while the EFL have been quite clear in saying that the 12 points deduction is automatic and that the CoVid-19 situation is not an excuse, the EFL are not the ones hearing the appeal. It will be heard by an Independent Panel and there's no guarantee they will view things exactly the same way as the EFL.

I'm hopeful that they will, of course.
 
Who are the independent panel though?

If its an arbitration type set up with a legal rather than emotional approach then it will be done by the book.

Didn't I read somewhere that the points deduction could be increased beyond 12 points if any new owners of Wigan do not pay off 25% of the debts?

That could really come into play if there are only a couple of points in it come Wednesday night.

And presumably if they can’t find a new owner they go out of business anyway?

I know there is a lack of trust in the football authorities but the odds look heavily stacked against Wigan to me.
 
They can't get away with it, they owe people money because they overspent, if they got off with it it would be a licence for every other team to overspend next year and blame covid 19

This is about protecting the integrity of the league to the outside world, can't have businesses constantly failing , defaulting on payments to companies etc, and then continuing to play in the same league or go unpunished
 
They apply it at the end of the season so they can be certain of the finishing position of the team being sanctioned. If Wigan were to actually finish in the bottom 3 the sanction is applied to the start of next season. If they finish outside the bottom three it is this season hence it can’t be applied until Wednesday night. EFL statement was very clear that this is a black and white issue - no grey areas or special considerations
 
They apply it at the end of the season so they can be certain of the finishing position of the team being sanctioned. If Wigan were to actually finish in the bottom 3 the sanction is applied to the start of next season. If they finish outside the bottom three it is this season hence it can’t be applied until Wednesday night. EFL statement was very clear that this is a black and white issue - no grey areas or special considerations
That doesn’t make sense. Wigan can’t now finish in the bottom 3 before penalty so the points will definitely be deducted this season. The only way they would have got the deduction next season would be if they hadn’t got enough points to survive.
 
It's just the appeal that is being waited on. EFL have been very clear (especially for them) 12 pts deduction stands. Even Wigan administrators said there is almost no hope of overturning it
 
It's just the appeal that is being waited on. EFL have been very clear (especially for them) 12 pts deduction stands. Even Wigan administrators said there is almost no hope of overturning it
They did so as far as I am concerned there is no question we will be relegated and more concerned now about how we can possibly rebuild the squad to ensure we don’t struggle next season.
 
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