So Fury/Joshua 14th August confirmed

[Andy_W]

It's for charity mate.... what are you prattling on about?

Waaay over your head, by the looks of it.

My charity would be at a net loss, based on market odds/ public perception, whereas yours would be at a net gain, based on value/ equity etc. This is the exact point people have been saying. It should be evens, but the market is not seeing it that way. We've been trying to establish why, and currently, it's seemingly because Fury can beat a windmill (with some power), but the windmill hasn't yet beaten anyone of note (and got battered twice by a genuine top 2 fighter, Fury).

Why would I bet you, when I can bet the market and get more for my charity, for less risk?

Don't be a bookie.

 

[Andy_W]

he's still the 3rd best heavyweight on the planet until proven otherwise as far as I'm concerned.

That's the problem, it won't get proven otherwise as he won't fight the top two (or probably not anyone else in the top 10), certainly when they're not at their peak.

The first fight was only given to Fury as Fury was not expected to be anywhere near his best, but that didn't go too well for him (apart from dodgy scoring)
The second fight was a rematch, basically Wilder clutching at straws, like one of his windmills his throws
This third "attempt" is just a money making exercise, he doesn't even want to fight, he just wants the cash

Come back next year, when he's fighting Rocky, who's about as old as Ortiz, but not as dumb.

 

[Chappy112]

That's the problem, it won't get proven otherwise as he won't fight the top two (or probably not anyone else in the top 10), certainly when they're not at their peak.

The first fight was only given to Fury as Fury was not expected to be anywhere near his best, but that didn't go too well for him (apart from dodgy scoring)
The second fight was a rematch, basically Wilder clutching at straws, like one of his windmills his throws
This third "attempt" is just a money making exercise, he doesn't even want to fight, he just wants the cash

Come back next year, when he's fighting Rocky, who's about as old as Ortiz, but not as dumb.

Agree that he just wants step aside money but I don't blame him, he has a contract.

 

[Alzi]

Waaay over your head, by the looks of it.

My charity would be at a net loss, based on market odds/ public perception, whereas yours would be at a net gain. This is the exact point people have been saying. It should be evens, but the market is not seeing it that way.

Why would I bet you, when I can bet the market and get more for my charity, for less risk?

Don't be a bookie.

It's £25 for charity, think you need to get a grip.

 

[Andy_W]

It's £25 for charity, think you need to get a grip.

I think you need to learn what is an evens bet and what isn't, you're basically proving my point over and over again.

 

[Andy_W]

Agree that he just wants step aside money but I don't blame him, he has a contract.

Was it a trilogy contract though, from the outset, it is it a rematch contract?

Most would say he had his rematch second time around, so shouldn't be kicking up a fuss if he's got any morals.

Saying that, when it comes to $15m, morals won't really come into it.

 

[Uwefuchs]

I'm actually in tears at that list, Wilder is a bum because "he never beat anyone" but Andy Ruiz Jr is the 3rd hardest fight despite beating who? Alexander Dimitrenko? The ghost of Kevin Johnson?

You can't go off record and then decide you want to go off ability when it suits. Wilder is the 3rd hardest fight on the list or he should be anyway, Fury vs Klitschko being 1st and AJ beating Klitschko being 2nd.

Finally a bit of sense

 

[Uwefuchs]

Tougher yes, more difficult fight? No, not at all.

Wilder is an absolute idiot, he's terrible technically but he has ridiculous power that changes any fight if he can find a way to land it, he's still the 3rd best heavyweight on the planet until proven otherwise as far as I'm concerned. I would never ever rule he out of any fight, even if he fought Fury a 3rd time, I would never say that he couldn't win the fight, his power is freakish. AJ proved in the 2nd fight that Ruiz is very, very easy to beat if you have the right gameplan and don't try to trade on the inside with a fast puncher with shorter punches who will always get there before you do.

If I had to give percentages on the 3 fighting each other I'd probably go like this.

Fury 90/10 Wilder
Fury 70/30 AJ
AJ 60/40 Wilder

I used to think that Wilder would beat AJ and I'd still give him a good chance because AJ is a lot easier to hit than Fury but you'd have to favour AJ after Fury managed to walk Wilder down and beat him up.

I agree with most of that but I'm not sure AJ would be able to walk Wilder down, not without getting caught on the way in.

I'd slightly favour AJ to win because he does the basics better (balance, footwork etc) which means he's more likely to land something big first.

Saying that AJ is not renowned for having a great defence either so I think Wilder is more than capable of putting him to sleep.

 

[BoroMart]

Wilder is an absolute idiot, he's terrible technically but he has ridiculous power that changes any fight if he can find a way to land it, he's still the 3rd best heavyweight on the planet until proven otherwise as far as I'm concerned.

He has power, is it phenomenal against someone with a good chin that's hardly been tested? Fury shrugged it off. He's got great power and great timing with that right, clearly, but you need more than just one big shot to be a classy champ. He crumbled under the tiniest bit of pressure from Fury, Ortiz had him badly wobbled. Even Molina hardly a concusive boxer made Wilders legs do a silly dance.

I would never ever rule he out of any fight, even if he fought Fury a 3rd time

I wouldn't rule any top 20 HW out of a fight, they can all turn it around with one punch.

AJ proved in the 2nd fight that Ruiz is very, very easy to beat if you have the right gameplan

AJ proved he can box someone out of a fight for 10 rounds, not many people can show that technique and discipline to do that. You need good feet, great fitness, and a stiff jab to stop Ruiz walking through it. Wilder hasn't got any disipline in the ring, only has one tactic, has poor feet and balance, his jab and fitness are ok though. He couldn't do what AJ did to Ruiz, and Ruiz could definitely hurt him. That would be a tough close fight.

 

[Alzi]

I think you need to learn what is an evens bet and what isn't, you're basically proving my point over and over again.

Yea we'll leave it there, it was proposed as a bit of fun to make a few quid for charity but you've kind of ***ed all over that bonfire.

 

[Chappy112]

I agree with most of that but I'm not sure AJ would be able to walk Wilder down, not without getting caught on the way in.

I'd slightly favour AJ to win because he does the basics better (balance, footwork etc) which means he's more likely to land something big first.

Saying that AJ is not renowned for having a great defence either so I think Wilder is more than capable of putting him to sleep.

Yeah AJ doesn't have the head movement that Fury has to walk him down, I just meant that if you're getting walked down and stopped by Fury then you'd think that AJ would be able to land the shots required to put him away. Your middle sentence there is exactly how I've saw that fight for most of the time that is has been a possibility, AJ is slightly favoured just because you would think he has the tools to land the shots needed before Wilder does.

There was a time a couple of years ago where I was convinced Wilder would win because AJ was so heavy he could barely move his feet whereas Wilder moves pretty well for a heavyweight, not coordinated or anything but he's light on his feet, I thought Wilder could get out of the way of AJ's shots but with AJ being so slow and heavy he'd be able to land a big shot before AJ could. AJ has finally got down to a more optimal weight for him so I'm not sure that scenario really applies anymore.

AJ being at 245lbs+ was actually one of the most bizarre decisions I've seen in a while from a fighter/trainer, everything in his performances pointed towards it being terrible for him and yet they persisted with it for quite a while. He looks much, much better at 240 and below.

 

[Andy_W]

Yea we'll leave it there, it was proposed as a bit of fun to make a few quid for charity but you've kind of p****d all over that bonfire.

You were trying to rob my charity. I'm hardly going to take an evens bet for it, when I can do it with a bookie and make it more money. I would be doing it a disservice doing any otherwise.

Anyway, here's my bet, if it wins £25 going to charity.



Over to you.

 

[Alzi]

You were trying to rob my charity. I'm hardly going to take an evens bet for it, when I can do it with a bookie and make it more money. I would be doing it a disservice doing any otherwise.

Anyway, here's my bet, if it wins £25 going to charity.

View attachment 18807

Over to you.

Fair enough. I'm not going to potentially give bookies money but I will screen shot £25 going to the charity of your choice if you give me their name (if Fury loses)

 

[Andy_W]

Fair enough. I'm not going to potentially give bookies money but I will screen shot £25 going to the charity of your choice if you give me their name (if Fury loses)

I'll donate to mine if AJ wins, and take the hit if he loses, at least it will mainly go to some other betfair user. Not thought about which yet, I'll probably spend it on some people on the street directly.

If Fury wins you can give £25 to yours, or do what you like But you should be risking £40-odd really, as you're apparently meant to be taking a lesser risk

 

[ForssAwakens]

You've just called them "second tier", and listed them separately behind AJ, Fury and Wilder?

That last one hasn't beat anyone good, he doesn't deserve to be labelled in the same category as AJ and Fury.

If they're second tier, so is Wilder, and at least the others fight each other/ other top 10's.

Wilder has beat tier 2 fighters. He beat Ortiz and you can bang on about his age but Ortiz even at this age was tier 2

 

[ForssAwakens]

I'm actually in tears at that list, Wilder is a bum because "he never beat anyone" but Andy Ruiz Jr is the 3rd hardest fight despite beating who? Alexander Dimitrenko? The ghost of Kevin Johnson?

You can't go off record and then decide you want to go off ability when it suits. Wilder is the 3rd hardest fight on the list or he should be anyway, Fury vs Klitschko being 1st and AJ beating Klitschko being 2nd.

Finally some common sense to proceedings

 

[ForssAwakens]

I'll donate to mine if AJ wins, and take the hit if he loses, at least it will mainly go to some other betfair user. Not thought about which yet, I'll probably spend it on some people on the street directly.

If Fury wins you can give £25 to yours, or do what you like But you should be risking £40-odd really, as you're apparently meant to be taking a lesser risk

Jesus pal, it’s a bet for charity

 

[ForssAwakens]

He has power, is it phenomenal against someone with a good chin that's hardly been tested? Fury shrugged it off. He's got great power and great timing with that right, clearly, but you need more than just one big shot to be a classy champ. He crumbled under the tiniest bit of pressure from Fury, Ortiz had him badly wobbled. Even Molina hardly a concusive boxer made Wilders legs do a silly dance.


I wouldn't rule any top 20 HW out of a fight, they can all turn it around with one punch.

AJ proved he can box someone out of a fight for 10 rounds, not many people can show that technique and discipline to do that. You need good feet, great fitness, and a stiff jab to stop Ruiz walking through it. Wilder hasn't got any disipline in the ring, only has one tactic, has poor feet and balance, his jab and fitness are ok though. He couldn't do what AJ did to Ruiz, and Ruiz could definitely hurt him. That would be a tough close fight.

I think you are getting carried away with aj’s performance. Ruiz was in worse condition than his first fight and didn’t half show. Was a great to see aj show a different skill set but it was hardly a vintage performance giving which ruiz it was

 

[Andy_W]

Jesus pal, it’s a bet for charity

Right, and I've ensured mine gets its far share, regardless? Why shouldn't it?

If he does the same it's no problem is it?

The point is the principle of the stacked odds against AJ, the amount I had to bet to ensure my charity got £25 shows it, it's a real world example so to speak. Obv not disrespecting any charities, I'm trying to ensure it's a "fair fight" between them, although I'm sure they're both deserving. The last bit was a wind up.

 

[Andy_W]

I think you are getting carried away with aj’s performance. Ruiz was in worse condition than his first fight and didn’t half show. Was a great to see aj show a different skill set but it was hardly a vintage performance giving which ruiz it was

Wasn't Ruiz leaner in the second fight? I can't remember to be honest.

He would likely have been fitter if so, but some guys can fight better or take it better when they have more beef. AJ's the opposite when he was too big it caused him problems, but he's learned that lesson now.

I do remember Ruiz going off the rails a bit mind, but can't remember when this was, but it kind of backs up how lucky he thinks he was (which he was).