Sir Keir Starmer self-isolating
- Thread starter WeeGord
- Start date
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
It isn't just his performance in the house, there is also the media. We are being lead down the garden path by the most corrupt, greedy and incompetent administration in our history. Where is he?
I'd like to see Starmer more willing to disagree with government policy, rather than only ever critiquing them on competency.
I'd also like it if he seemed more willing to engage with the left side of the party or with trade unions. I really can't understand the "no ifs, no buts" stuff about putting kids back in schools. The warnings were all there from the teachers unions, so we know he knew it wouldn't be safe and would cause the rise in cases we're getting now.
As has already been said we're miles away from a Parliamentary General Election so no need for specific policies but it'd be nice to see some generalised directions on the end vision from him. All he's really said about the future so far since becoming leader is he'll never support Universal Basic Income and he doesn't think Scotland should be allowed to have a new Independence referendum.
I don't see these things as much to ask for really. If part of his sales pitch is to market himself as welcoming to the tories and use others in his team like Miliband yesterday to attack the gov, I'd accept that but it hasn't been happening up until now.
Also don't mind if he doesn't want to mention/defend Corbyn personally ever as per the PMQs issue last week if that's a tactic for moving the party on. However if that is what he's doing, he needs to quickly find a friend or two on the Socialist Campaign Group that he is happy to put forward and who he can bring in whenever he next shuffles.
I'd also like it if he seemed more willing to engage with the left side of the party or with trade unions. I really can't understand the "no ifs, no buts" stuff about putting kids back in schools. The warnings were all there from the teachers unions, so we know he knew it wouldn't be safe and would cause the rise in cases we're getting now.
As has already been said we're miles away from a Parliamentary General Election so no need for specific policies but it'd be nice to see some generalised directions on the end vision from him. All he's really said about the future so far since becoming leader is he'll never support Universal Basic Income and he doesn't think Scotland should be allowed to have a new Independence referendum.
I don't see these things as much to ask for really. If part of his sales pitch is to market himself as welcoming to the tories and use others in his team like Miliband yesterday to attack the gov, I'd accept that but it hasn't been happening up until now.
Also don't mind if he doesn't want to mention/defend Corbyn personally ever as per the PMQs issue last week if that's a tactic for moving the party on. However if that is what he's doing, he needs to quickly find a friend or two on the Socialist Campaign Group that he is happy to put forward and who he can bring in whenever he next shuffles.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
Keir Starmer is playing the long game, if he blindly attacks everything the government does then he risks being made a fool due to advice/evidence/stats he's not privy too. It also makes it easy for Johnson to bat him away at PMQ's.
Similarly, if he announced now what he would stand for in the next election, it would give his detractors 4 years to smear, just like they did with Corbyn.
Due to the majority the government hold, there is very little leeway for Starmer to go fully on the attack, and I feel that he is doing the right thing in letting the government be judged by its own actions.
Similarly, if he announced now what he would stand for in the next election, it would give his detractors 4 years to smear, just like they did with Corbyn.
Due to the majority the government hold, there is very little leeway for Starmer to go fully on the attack, and I feel that he is doing the right thing in letting the government be judged by its own actions.
BoroMart
Well-known member
It's a tactic, focus on holding to account, don't give them an 'out' by letting them divert from what they're doing to what Labour hypothetically would have done.
Not sure if that's a rebuttal of my post.
I didn't say anything about blindly attacking everything the government does. I just said I'd like him to be willing to disagree with government policy. So far as party leader he's bent over backwards to always point out how he blindly supports everything the government does.
Again, not what I asked for. Fine for specific policies to come later but he should always be giving us the jist of what the party is for. The tories didn't really announce any policy details even during the election last year but everyone knows the jist of what they're about.
I didn't say anything about blindly attacking everything the government does. I just said I'd like him to be willing to disagree with government policy. So far as party leader he's bent over backwards to always point out how he blindly supports everything the government does.
Again, not what I asked for. Fine for specific policies to come later but he should always be giving us the jist of what the party is for. The tories didn't really announce any policy details even during the election last year but everyone knows the jist of what they're about.
Well personally, I don't think it's an especially good tactic or very forward thinking. We've got the highest covid deaths in Europe. I think it'd be better long term to be able to say with some validity that Labour would have done things differently.
BoroMart
Well-known member
He can still say that
Zoophonic
Well-known member
Correct. And London’s bid team which won the 2012 Olympics too was under Livingston. Johnson rode on the coattails of that victory.
Laughing
Well-known member
On the issue of disagreeing with government policy:
NHS surcharge
reopening of schools on June 9th
Free summer school meals
There is 3 straight away, I am sure there are others.
On schools going back Starmer has always said that children should go back to school when it is safe to do so, was it safe when schools re-opened? Well there is some mixed opinions on that. I personally wanted to see schools back, but you have to balance that, with, in my opinion limiting or closing pubs. The rise in cases is not just because of schools, in fact it may have nothing to do with schools, at the moment, given the testing demographics.
I agree to an extent that it would be good to hear some of Labours policy leanings, but I don't know if that is strategically wise, or even if that plays a part in Starmers thinking.
I think that he has 4 years to turn around a huge deficit and he has managed that in a few months. Yes I agree Johnsons handling of covid has played into Labours hands, but given brexit isn't over the line yet, the swing in opinion polls is remarkable. He is getting something right.
Laughing I think we probably just have slightly different instincts that change how we see things - which is obviously fine.
I see this as more to do with who was Shadow Education Secretary at the time, and who was then bombed out.
Don't think Starmer would have chimed in on this if Marcus Rashford hadn't already done the hard work of winning over public opinion.
Fair enough, I do agree with this.
It's clear to me that my politics aren't shared by a majority in this country so I'm sure he'll do very well without needing to do things that appeal to me.
I see this as more to do with who was Shadow Education Secretary at the time, and who was then bombed out.
Don't think Starmer would have chimed in on this if Marcus Rashford hadn't already done the hard work of winning over public opinion.
Fair enough, I do agree with this.
It's clear to me that my politics aren't shared by a majority in this country so I'm sure he'll do very well without needing to do things that appeal to me.Of course he can. But as I said, not with any validity cause there's week after week of PMQs footage where every question starts with "I support the government's policy on..."
I suppose maybe it doesn't really matter. Not like anything Boris says is true either so who cares?
Lefty
Well-known member
Am I the only one who thinks that Starmer is keeping a lot of his powder dry on covid and brexit?
If he attacks on Brexit now, it won't change anything and the Government will again say, if/when Brexit is a disaster, that it was hampered by Remainers in cahoots with the EU. I expect he has compiled a long list of promises, contradictions, mistakes etc. that he will crucify the brexiters on when the German car manufacturers don't ride to the rescue and the sunlit uplands are swampy boglands. He can't stop it, so he is largely keeping out of the way.
Again, there is plenty of time to attack the Government on Covid after the crisis is over and a thorough review has been conducted. So far, he has been careful to mostly offer assistance, which is the right thing to do morally and tactically.
I am quite sure, on both matters, he will be pouring through Hansard and speeches and collecting quote after quote to use in a few years time when it matters and people might be keen to apportion blame.
If he attacks on Brexit now, it won't change anything and the Government will again say, if/when Brexit is a disaster, that it was hampered by Remainers in cahoots with the EU. I expect he has compiled a long list of promises, contradictions, mistakes etc. that he will crucify the brexiters on when the German car manufacturers don't ride to the rescue and the sunlit uplands are swampy boglands. He can't stop it, so he is largely keeping out of the way.
Again, there is plenty of time to attack the Government on Covid after the crisis is over and a thorough review has been conducted. So far, he has been careful to mostly offer assistance, which is the right thing to do morally and tactically.
I am quite sure, on both matters, he will be pouring through Hansard and speeches and collecting quote after quote to use in a few years time when it matters and people might be keen to apportion blame.
WeeGord
Well-known member
This, 100%.