Chutney
Well-known member
And what about goal line clearances? And players becoming experts at "shouldering" it?
It's a fine aim, but feels unbelievably difficult to implement.
Should heading be banned in football?
- Thread starter GibbosEmpire
- Start date
It's a fine aim, but feels unbelievably difficult to implement.
Acording to the results of some studies, it appears the most deleterious effects are on the developing brain. Hence the emphasis being placed (currently at least) in restricting it for younger age groups.
Is Heading in Youth Soccer Dangerous Play?
Is Heading in Youth Soccer Dangerous Play?
atypical_boro
Well-known member
That's what we have now. It will lead to more dementia.
Laughing
Well-known member
It may do or it may not. We don't know if the main cause is linked to developing brains rather than adult brain impacts. But that's not my point.
Let people know the risks and let them accept a level of risk they are comfortable with, same as for every activity we involve ourselves in.
It isn't necessary to legislate to protect adults.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
I think in sport it is. You can't say to boxers 'just assess the risk yourself of whether you want to punch someone in the face and potentially give them dementia later in life.' You won't last long if you refuse to head the ball in football but it is still part of the game.
Laughing
Well-known member
Not really what I am saying. Heading should stay part of the game. If you don't want to head it don't play the game.
We should legislate to protect children not adults.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
OK, well the ban needs to be raised to 18 then, in that case? They'll be 21 before they've learned to head it properly.
Players will likely have shorter careers as a result. You won't get players like Rooney starting games at 16. But yeah, something has to give I suppose.
They've made changes in the kids game so no headers up to u12 where the brain is more vulnerable to damage as the skull is not fully developed.
They've also brought in guidance around how much heading can be done in training which gradually increases into adult football but is still limited.
We probably headed the ball more before we turned 12 than kids today will by the time they are 18. We would have line drills where we would repeatedly head the ball probably 50+ times in a training session at 9 year old.
My U12s have probably headed the ball less than 50 times each in the whole time we have been playing. They've only just started heading the ball in matches and we don't head in training.
The changes are massive and needs to be given a chance to take effect.
Players don't head the ball more than about 10 times max each in the PL these days and most players are way under that. It does increase as you move down the pyramid but not by a huge amount.
They've also brought in guidance around how much heading can be done in training which gradually increases into adult football but is still limited.
We probably headed the ball more before we turned 12 than kids today will by the time they are 18. We would have line drills where we would repeatedly head the ball probably 50+ times in a training session at 9 year old.
My U12s have probably headed the ball less than 50 times each in the whole time we have been playing. They've only just started heading the ball in matches and we don't head in training.
The changes are massive and needs to be given a chance to take effect.
Players don't head the ball more than about 10 times max each in the PL these days and most players are way under that. It does increase as you move down the pyramid but not by a huge amount.
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We have extensive legislation to protect adults, e.g., prescription drugs and 'illegal' drugs, consumer protection laws. Are you suggesting that this is never appropriate?
Laughing
Well-known member
I am suggesting that leisure activities should not be legislated. I don't really agree with illegal drugs either.
Consumer protections protect against activities by others not the individuals choice.
Sports surely should be doing what they can do to prevent injury/health risks in sports. Especially at junior level when children aren't older enough to make that informed choice themselves.
A lot of sports have tweaked rules and evolved over the last 20 years to protect people.
Cricket - mandatory helmet use for batters in pro game and u18 non pro game
Rugby - various changes to tackling rules over the years. Most recently the height
NFL - made changes around tackling, particularly around head on head tackles
Concussion protocols across the board have become more stringent.
I think sports bodies should be protecting participants, but we are doing that already in football with the changes that have been made.
davidmills
Well-known member
So when do we ban cars as people die in car crashes.
When do we ban alcohol as people die from alcohol related diseases.
When do we ban smoking as people die from smoking related diseases.
People die from skin cancer after sun bathing, do we ban that.
Most sports have danger of some kind, are all of these to be banned.
I played local football for at least 20 years on a Saturday afternoon, Sunday morning and Sunday afternoon.
That was my choice, oh and I didn't get the rewards that Gary Pallister got from his career.
All the talk is of poor ex professionals.
Hundreds of thousands of ordinary people play/played football every weekend across the country.
Again that was/is their choice, we didn't know the possible repercussions of heading the ball back then.
We do now so let people make their own choice.
I am sure Gary Pallister wouldn't change his life given the chance again.
When do we ban alcohol as people die from alcohol related diseases.
When do we ban smoking as people die from smoking related diseases.
People die from skin cancer after sun bathing, do we ban that.
Most sports have danger of some kind, are all of these to be banned.
I played local football for at least 20 years on a Saturday afternoon, Sunday morning and Sunday afternoon.
That was my choice, oh and I didn't get the rewards that Gary Pallister got from his career.
All the talk is of poor ex professionals.
Hundreds of thousands of ordinary people play/played football every weekend across the country.
Again that was/is their choice, we didn't know the possible repercussions of heading the ball back then.
We do now so let people make their own choice.
I am sure Gary Pallister wouldn't change his life given the chance again.
That is not what most of the science is indicating.
Footballers facing 'phenomenal risks' says Scots dementia expert
Jeff Astle’s daughter Dawn made a promise to her father as his body lay in the chapel of rest that “If football did this to you, the world will…
www.heraldscotland.com
It is firstly important players know the risks - youngsters, girls, women and men. And they know the risks can apply to amateur players or professional. As a sport football needs to take more responsibility for the care and aftercare of its players.
The dementia is increasingly be proven to the the result of CTE - Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) which is a degenerative brain disease that occurs after repeated head injuries or concussions. CTE has now been shown to be strongly linked to repeatedly heading the ball. This used to be called being punch drunk.
Hayley McQueen was campaigning on behalf of her late father, Gordon, to restrict heading in training. Gordon along with several former players in our area have died recently after contracting forms of dementia relatively early in life.
There is surely a duty of care from the game to educate players and clubs of the risks and to investigate ways of reducing those risks. But also to be paying for the care of players and their families.
CTE is particularly worrying because it can radically change behaviour. Ex players with CTE can become suicidal or extremely aggressive and violent. In some instances former players have had to be sectioned to protect their families.
One problem is you can only discover CTE for sure in autopsy. In USA this has been explored on a large scale and alarmingly high rates have been detected in former NFL players. There the authorities are paying out multi million dollar settlements because they have accepted that a previous helmet was not of good enough standard.
Bill Gates autopsy discovered his brain had exceptionally high levels of CTE. The medical report afterwards concluded it was a wonder he had been able to function at all. Remember although he didn't die until the age of 79 Bill had suffered from repeated migraines whilst playing. He quit at the age of 29 and never headed a ball again. He was suffering from dementia for the last couple of decades of his life. This wasn't just memory loss. It was severe near suicidal depression, states of constant agitation, leading to walking mile after mile every day until exhaustion. Finally a state of being totally unresponsive.
Surely football has to take its responsibilities seriously. If the science is proving the causes and links then it needs to take actions and reduce the heading, take it out of training, take it out of not just junior football but look at the next age up. And remember Juninho and the Brazilians concentrated on ground work as kids, no heading. It did them no harm.
Laughing
Well-known member
I agree we should protect children. I don't agree that we should fundamentally change a sport to protect adults. We should allow adults to assess risk themselves and make informed decisions.
The waters are muddied in professional sport due to the vast sums involved for the participants but it should still be their choice.
Sports bodies have to protect participants to avoid legal repercussions. This doesn't happen in, for example boxing because the participants work for themselves.
So we are saying the FA has to protect participants but boxing is a free for all because of employment law. And there is the real reason behind this.
My suggestion would be to inform participants of the dangers and allow them to make informed decisions as do individual sportsmen and women, amateurs and anyone who likes a kick about.
Fr Austin Purcell
Member
This is going to go down like a lead balloon... but being very interested in this subject (I manage my son's junior team where heading is banned & have massive concerns around the time he & his teammates are allowed to head the ball in the future) & reading through the many replies on this thread, an obvious solution to this problem has just struck me...
Ban heading, but allow handball (with restrictions such as no holding/carrying etc) - the art of heading simply replaced with the art of handling (scoring, defending, clearing crosses etc etc - anything in the game that could be done with the head, could be replicated by the hand)
I'll await the abuse!
Ban heading, but allow handball (with restrictions such as no holding/carrying etc) - the art of heading simply replaced with the art of handling (scoring, defending, clearing crosses etc etc - anything in the game that could be done with the head, could be replicated by the hand)
I'll await the abuse!
Laughing
Well-known member
You won't be disappointed.I'll await the abuse!
An experimental game has been played at Spennymoor where no heading was allowed. Mark Tinkler, Boro U21 coach took part.This is going to go down like a lead balloon... but being very interested in this subject (I manage my son's junior team where heading is banned & have massive concerns around the time he & his teammates are allowed to head the ball in the future) & reading through the many replies on this thread, an obvious solution to this problem has just struck me...
Ban heading, but allow handball (with restrictions such as no holding/carrying etc) - the art of heading simply replaced with the art of handling (scoring, defending, clearing crosses etc etc - anything in the game that could be done with the head, could be replicated by the hand)
I'll await the abuse!
Speaking with Nick Gates he had real concerns that once kids pass beyond the age of heading restrictions they are actually being encouraged to make up for lost time by heading more. He said that was a very real concern for him now.