Separating the art from the artist

HarryVegas said:
Hmm...if Naziism wasn't about a belief that one particular race were a subspecies (albeit following it through with action) then I don't know what it was about.,
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Well it was about believing it and then also acting on it I suppose.

Morrissey hasn't actually acted on anything as far as I'm aware. I'm not defending his comments, what he said was clearly a stupid, racist thing to say and phrased terribly. He is unmovable in his beliefs around animal rights and, in his view, if you treat animals badly, you're a sub-human. Its definitely a bit extreme for me, but not sure it's 'Nazism'.
 
Artists with 'normal' political views left, right or centre don't bother me at all.

But regarding Morrissey and 'For Britain', when someone like Nigel Farage describes Anne Marie Waters as a Nazi and a racist it sort of sets alarm bells ringing with me.
 
Surprised Pete Townsend hasn't been mentioned yet. Not really a fan of the who but wasn't dodgy stuff found on his PC which he said was for research purposes or have I completely misremembered that?

Loved the smiths but Morrissey makes it harder to listen to them each time he opens his mouth.

Ian Brown being a bit of a covid idiot recently was a thumbs down.

Also what about Roman Polanski. The Pianist was a superb movie, and he keeps on getting jobs - how do you square that?
 
SE4 Red said:
Surprised Pete Townsend hasn't been mentioned yet. Not really a fan of the who but wasn't dodgy stuff found on his PC which he said was for research purposes or have I completely misremembered that?

Loved the smiths but Morrissey makes it harder to listen to them each time he opens his mouth.

Ian Brown being a bit of a covid idiot recently was a thumbs down.

Also what about Roman Polanski. The Pianist was a superb movie, and he keeps on getting jobs - how do you square that?
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Townshend was 'cleared' though, some people choose to still hold him guilty and its obviously a matter of opinion but you'd like to think if he had done genuinely bad stuff it would have come out in the wash by now.

I do agree that Morrissey's views have become more and more dislikeable and it has tarnished my love for the Smiths a little (and maybe it shouldn't), I'm just saying I don't think I'd label him a Nazi and his 'crimes' are basically a few stupid (ok, racist) interviews, he hasn't killed anyone. Nor has he had sex with any slightly underage girls (and let's face it, lots of rockstars obviously have, some of which are revered on this board).

Ian Brown has always been anti-establishment. I'm not going to 'cancel' him entirely because he doesn't like wearing a face covering.

People like Michael Jackson, Ian Watkins and Roman Polanski are on a whole other level to Ian Brown and Morrissey, surely? Assuming Jacko was guilty, of course.
 
atypical_boro said:
Townshend was 'cleared' though, some people choose to still hold him guilty and its obviously a matter of opinion but you'd like to think if he had done genuinely bad stuff it would have come out in the wash by now.

I do agree that Morrissey's views have become more and more dislikeable and it has tarnished my love for the Smiths a little (and maybe it shouldn't), I'm just saying I don't think I'd label him a Nazi and his 'crimes' are basically a few stupid (ok, racist) interviews, he hasn't killed anyone. Nor has he had sex with any slightly underage girls (and let's face it, lots of rockstars obviously have, some of which are revered on this board).

Ian Brown has always been anti-establishment. I'm not going to 'cancel' him entirely because he doesn't like wearing a face covering.

People like Michael Jackson, Ian Watkins and Roman Polanski are on a whole other level to Ian Brown and Morrissey, surely? Assuming Jacko was guilty, of course.
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Tbh I was never a fan of any of the others' listed work, so no decision needed.
 
HarryVegas said:
Tbh I was never a fan of any of the others' listed work, so no decision needed.
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How would you feel if Bowie was given the 'cancel' treatment though Harry? All it would take is for someone like Lori Mattix to say she's now realised she couldn't give consent at that age and the papers would be making hay for weeks about it.
 
atypical_boro said:
How would you feel if Bowie was given the 'cancel' treatment though Harry? All it would take is for someone like Lori Mattix to say she's now realised she couldn't give consent at that age and the papers would be making hay for weeks about it.
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He did lots of well dodgy stuff, along with many, many others in the genre. He also matured and admitted to having behaved terribly, including his addictions. Anyway, I'm not asking for anyone to be 'cancelled', God knows I'm not a prude anyway. All I said was in light of Morrissey's promotion of despicable - and in my opinion fascist - views, I've disengaged. The man is an objectionable tosser at best.
 
HarryVegas said:
He did lots of well dodgy stuff, along with many, many others in the genre. He also matured and admitted to having behaved terribly, including his addictions. Anyway, I'm not asking for anyone to be 'cancelled', God knows I'm not a prude anyway. All I said was in light of Morrissey's promotion of despicable - and in my opinion fascist - views, I've disengaged. The man is an objectionable tosser at best.
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Well, fair enough, but that's not quite the same as being a Nazi. Personally, I wouldn't say his views constitute 'fascism' necessarily but he could certainly do with some diplomacy training and learn how to express his views in a way that don't direct so much anger towards particular cohorts he disagrees with. Anyway, far too late for that I expect. He has more or less been 'cancelled' though (by society in general). I'd be surprised if he even cares, but I do feel a bit sad that it has come to this for him.
 
parnabyscrosses said:
These people’s personal problems or flaws don’t come into it when I’m choosing what to listen to, listened to The Smiths this morning, Ryan Adams is one of my all time favorites and I often listen to Michael Jackson.
Only one I can’t listen to is Lostprophets, shame as I’m a huge post hardcore fan and they had a few bangers early on!
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I have fairly similar views to this. I just enjoy the art and separate it from the artist so their views, beliefs, behaviours, past incidents don't come into it for me. You can enjoy the art whilst still believing the artist to be an almighty b*llend (or even worse).

Just because you 'consume' the art doesn't mean you automatically endorse everything they stand for, approve of every decision they've ever made or agree with everthing they've ever said, these things aren't mutually exclusive.
 
Of course you can separate the artist from art, I can enjoy going to a Picasso exhibition at a gallery without dwelling on his misogynistic tendencies and general lifestyle, arguably you could say that his mindset influenced some of his works, but humans are flawed creatures.
 
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atypical_boro said:
As I said above so is Warnock. At least he’s honest about it, or would you rather he just didn’t say anything so you didn’t know?
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I have no problem with honesty. I also have no obligation to forgive someone just because they are "honest" about it
 
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