Separating the art from the artist

Another one for Morrisey. Live the man's work but can't stand the man.

Roger Daltrey even more so.

Even Ian brown, my boyhood hero and how he has responded to lockdowns and masks. That is so disappointing but its not going to stop me enjoying his music.
 
atypical_boro said:
Can't honestly say I've ever come across shades of Nazism from him. Admittedly I've never met him, but I think you'd have to know someone pretty well to conclude that unless they wore it as a badge of honour.
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“Reggae, for example, is to me the most racist music in the entire world. It's an absolute total glorification of black supremacy... I don’t have very cast iron opinions on black music other than black modern music which I detest. I detest Stevie Wonder. I think Diana Ross is awful. I hate all those records in the Top 40 – Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston. I think they’re vile in the extreme... Obviously to get on Top Of The Pops these days, one has to be, by law, black,”

“I don’t really think, for instance, black people and white people will ever really get on or like each other.”

“It’s very obvious that Labour or the Tories do not believe in free speech … I mean, look at the shocking treatment of Tommy Robinson." He further clarified his support by saying: "“In view of this, there is only one British political party that can safeguard our security. That party is For Britain.”
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Appreciate you taking time to reply, but Lennon fans always have a ready made excuse for him - whether it's the upbringing (in a pretty middle class set up, not the working class one he claimed) or the fact that in later years he changed a bit and "acknowledged most of his shortcomings and failures" which to many seems to be this get out of jail free card.

I don't think you and I are going to agree, as you're obviously as big a fan as I'm not.
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Middle class upbringings can also be abusive (his aunt), but he did lose his mother as a result of abandonment at a young age, reconciled, then lost her again to death (and blamed himself for it given she'd been visiting him).

Again, I think the song 'Working Class Hero' gives rise to this idea that he claimed to be middle class but I'm not sure he even wrote it about himself, he just wrote it.

I agree that I will probably never convince you, but as someone who HAS abandoned one childhood idol and lifelong musical hero (so its certainly not beyond me to do so), I just felt that I might offer some knowledge about Lennon that you haven't been exposed to.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
“Reggae, for example, is to me the most racist music in the entire world. It's an absolute total glorification of black supremacy... I don’t have very cast iron opinions on black music other than black modern music which I detest. I detest Stevie Wonder. I think Diana Ross is awful. I hate all those records in the Top 40 – Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston. I think they’re vile in the extreme... Obviously to get on Top Of The Pops these days, one has to be, by law, black,”

“I don’t really think, for instance, black people and white people will ever really get on or like each other.”

“It’s very obvious that Labour or the Tories do not believe in free speech … I mean, look at the shocking treatment of Tommy Robinson." He further clarified his support by saying: "“In view of this, there is only one British political party that can safeguard our security. That party is For Britain.”
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Right wing and probably racist, perhaps. Nazi? I mean he's not killed anyone (that I know of). What is 'a Nazi' anyway? Anna Soubry?
 
atypical_boro said:
Middle class upbringings can also be abusive (his aunt), but he did lose his mother as a result of abandonment at a young age, reconciled, then lost her again to death (and blamed himself for it given she'd been visiting him).

Again, I think the song 'Working Class Hero' gives rise to this idea that he claimed to be middle class but I'm not sure he even wrote it about himself, he just wrote it.

I agree that I will probably never convince you, but as someone who HAS abandoned one childhood idol and lifelong musical hero (so its certainly not beyond me to do so), I just felt that I might offer some knowledge about Lennon that you haven't been exposed to.
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I wouldn't say I haven't been exposed to it, I've read about his childhood as well as his later life, it's just that I don't think it excuses what he became.

Loads of people have traumatic childhoods, many of whom don't grow up to physically abuse their wife and emotionally abuse their sons.

As I say it's not even Lennon I object to much - he was a rock and roll star - they're messed up I get that. It's the almost beatification of Saint John by his fans that I object to, who seek to excuse anything he did in some form because of the brilliant songs he and Paul wrote.
 
These people’s personal problems or flaws don’t come into it when I’m choosing what to listen to, listened to The Smiths this morning, Ryan Adams is one of my all time favorites and I often listen to Michael Jackson.
Only one I can’t listen to is Lostprophets, shame as I’m a huge post hardcore fan and they had a few bangers early on!
 
SmallTown said:
Another one for Morrisey. Live the man's work but can't stand the man.

Roger Daltrey even more so.

Even Ian brown, my boyhood hero and how he has responded to lockdowns and masks. That is so disappointing but its not going to stop me enjoying his music.
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What's Roger Daltrey done?
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
I wouldn't say I haven't been exposed to it, I've read about his childhood as well as his later life, it's just that I don't think it excuses what he became.

Loads of people have traumatic childhoods, many of whom don't grow up to physically abuse their wife and emotionally abuse their sons.

As I say it's not even Lennon I object to much - he was a rock and roll star - they're messed up I get that. It's the almost beatification of Saint John by his fans that I object to, who seek to excuse anything he did in some form because of the brilliant songs he and Paul wrote.
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Perhaps, but lots don't have the same levels of scrutiny too. Anyway, I'm not making excuses for him really, I just think he's a complex character with a complex story. He shouldn't be viewed by anyone as 'a saint' (and neither should any musicians).
 
HarryVegas said:
"You can't help but feel that the Chinese people are a subspecies."
Morrissey
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Hmm. Yeah I remember that one. In context, he was saying it about animal rights, not that that makes it ok. He could have definitely phrased it differently and still stayed true to his beliefs about animals.

I still think saying that, although it can definitely be construed as heavily racist, isn't quite what I'd call 'Nazism'. There's a bit of a danger that calling all racist commentators 'Nazis' means there is nothing left to call people like (ahem) the Chinese leader who has been imprisoning Muslims in concentration camps.
 
Paterson said:
I'd love them to re- record everything without that ****, even as instrumentals. Maybe especially as instrumentals and then tour and just let the crowd sing it. Or perhaps get someone of Indian or Chinese origin to front them.
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TBF he wrote all the lyrics. I don't think you could ever cleanse the Smiths of his influence.
 
H
atypical_boro said:
Hmm. Yeah I remember that one. In context, he was saying it about animal rights, not that that makes it ok. He could have definitely phrased it differently and still stayed true to his beliefs about animals.

I still think saying that, although it can definitely be construed as heavily racist, isn't quite what I'd call 'Nazism'. There's a bit of a danger that calling all racist commentators 'Nazis' means there is nothing left to call people like (ahem) the Chinese leader who has been imprisoning Muslims in concentration camps.
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Hmm...if Naziism wasn't about a belief that one particular race were a subspecies (albeit following it through with action) then I don't know what it was about.,
 
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