Rwanda scheme

Facefuzz said:
Is the thinking that it is a solution or deterrent to the situation?
If it’s the later and it makes some people think twice about getting in a dinghy of a criminal gang and saves some lives then it will have worked.
Unfortunately, the people who have no right to be here will still get in a boat regardless of any deterrent.
Bottom line is there is neither the space, resources or finances to manage the current demand in this country.
I think the ideal scenario is to have applications before travel and expedite the result.
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They don't want that. It's easier to keep voters angry that this somehow unfixable problem is the fault of lefty lawyers and charities.

The problem the Tories have is that we are so far down the line that they can't tell the truth about the situation.
 
Now we can join the People Trafficking team. They’re about, they hope, to start dumping people in an African country. Where there there will be no having applications even considered.
In fact there’s purposefully no means of doing it.
It won’t act as a deterrent, even if they manage to make it work.
But it’s now been deemed lawful, along with lots of things. But it doesn’t make it right.

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Facefuzz said:
Money is short, hence extra borrowing and the next round of spending cuts.
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Money isn't short it's just not distributed fairly, billionaire's are getting richer not poorer and policies that have allowed more money to be moved from government control into private hands is a political ideology rather than any necessity.

We have spent millions, quite rightly, on accepting Ukrainian refugees, we have also opened our doors to a potential 2.9million people from Hong Kong of those that have so far responded 46% were unemployed in Hong Kong and 72% are in receipt of benefits once they have resettled, the playing field is not level, no one being granted asylum from these areas is being threatened with Rwanda.

The cost of the Rwandan policy is massive as demonstrated in that article in Newusernames post (#39)

If you a fleeing persecution and want to settle in the UK you would still need to enter the country before doing so, it will not deter anybody who genuinely believes that life in the UK is their best course for a better future, desperate people resort to desperate measures.

I wonder how many preventable deaths of people who would fit the criteria for asylum are acceptable to this government before they realise that they need to rethink and reprioritise the concepts and drivers behind a policy that is proven to be unfit for purpose.
 
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American_Mary said:
Money isn't short it's just not distributed fairly, billionaire's are getting richer not poorer and policies that have allowed more money to be moved from government control into private hands is political ideology rather than any necessity.
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That's one of the major problems we have in this country isn't it? People like fuzzy believe this. They go along with the demonisation of either the poor,or asylum seekers, or whomever the government make us blame for their own failings. We need to be better at seeing through these lies
 
SmallTown said:
That's one of the major problems we have in this country isn't it? People like fuzzy believe this. They go along with the demonisation of either the poor,or asylum seekers, or whomever the government make us blame for their own failings. We need to be better at seeing through these lies
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Because it’s true. Ukraine has cost a fortune and that will be getting paid back forever and a day, on top of Covid. There simply isn’t enough money to do everything. It’s basic economics but people don’t see that now. People live beyond their means and expect governments to do the same.
The other factor is space. High intensity on resources in this country are bleeding it dry. We have water shortages, we don’t grow enough food for ourselves and have to import it. There’s talk of energy not being available to everybody all of the time. There’s not enough houses. There’s not the land to build houses unless more green belt is taken. Only yesterday it was announced the massive % of wildlife lost or threatened in this country.
I think there has to be a solution to the problem, as it currently isn’t working, is Rwanda the answer? Probably not. Does asylum need sorting prior to entry? Probably yes.
 
Literally this current government was about to cut taxes for the highest earners in this country.

There are at any time in England more than 200K long term (more than 6 months) empty properties. We aren't that densely populated overall; it's just that as a country it's been decided to heavily populate certain urban areas.

All of the problems that you talk about you're so close to working out why they exist. So, so close.
 
Facefuzz said:
Because it’s true. Ukraine has cost a fortune and that will be getting paid back forever and a day, on top of Covid. There simply isn’t enough money to do everything. It’s basic economics but people don’t see that now. People live beyond their means and expect governments to do the same.
The other factor is space. High intensity on resources in this country are bleeding it dry. We have water shortages, we don’t grow enough food for ourselves and have to import it. There’s talk of energy not being available to everybody all of the time. There’s not enough houses. There’s not the land to build houses unless more green belt is taken. Only yesterday it was announced the massive % of wildlife lost or threatened in this country.
I think there has to be a solution to the problem, as it currently isn’t working, is Rwanda the answer? Probably not. Does asylum need sorting prior to entry? Probably yes.
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You really have fallen for it all haven't you? If the country has no money, it's because the current government have stolen it. Not because we need to support people fleeing persecution. It's sad they have done a number on you. There's plenty of space in this country. We are a long way from being one of the most densely populated countries.
 
I do find it funny that people can find all sorts of complex non-reasons for not taking in people seeking asylum but can find very simple solutions to the same issue of rejecting or diverting their claims.

The Rwanda scheme is at most (if it all goes to 'plan') going to result in around 800 asylum seekers ending up there.

We'll get around the same number in return.

Every single human who may be involved in this exercise has to be vetted initially (in the UK) and their details sent to Rwanda for approval. Every single one will be allowed to individually appeal that decision.

And while that goes on, this lot will continue to build up the backlog in asylum seekers, in hospital waiting lists, in every way that they continue to fail us.
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
I do find it funny that people can find all sorts of complex non-reasons for not taking in people seeking asylum but can find very simple solutions to the same issue of rejecting or diverting their claims.

The Rwanda scheme is at most (if it all goes to 'plan') going to result in around 800 asylum seekers ending up there.

We'll get around the same number in return.

Every single human who may be involved in this exercise has to be vetted initially (in the UK) and their details sent to Rwanda for approval. Every single one will be allowed to individually appeal that decision.

And while that goes on, this lot will continue to build up the backlog in asylum seekers, in hospital waiting lists, in every way that they continue to fail us.
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The one for one swap is largely ignored by those pushing support for this policy. I wonder why.
 
Facefuzz said:
Because it’s true. Ukraine has cost a fortune and that will be getting paid back forever and a day, on top of Covid. There simply isn’t enough money to do everything. It’s basic economics but people don’t see that now. People live beyond their means and expect governments to do the same.
The other factor is space. High intensity on resources in this country are bleeding it dry. We have water shortages, we don’t grow enough food for ourselves and have to import it. There’s talk of energy not being available to everybody all of the time. There’s not enough houses. There’s not the land to build houses unless more green belt is taken. Only yesterday it was announced the massive % of wildlife lost or threatened in this country.
I think there has to be a solution to the problem, as it currently isn’t working, is Rwanda the answer? Probably not. Does asylum need sorting prior to entry? Probably yes.
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Rarely have I seen a more eloquent summary of the complete mismanagement of this country by its Government.

Of course the Government's comms team have done a real number here, because rather than apportion blame exactly where it should be, they concoct bull5hit stories about "others" to deflect attention from their own failings. It's a classic smokescreen and, worryingly, it appears to be working.

There's a reason the Government don't fix the litany of things which are wrong with this country - they profit from not doing so. And when questioned, they blame someone else and a large section of the electorate BELIEVE THEM

The fallacy of government debt in the very first sentence is sufficient acknowledgement of that very point.
 
changingman said:
Rarely have I seen a more eloquent summary of the complete mismanagement of this country by its Government.

Of course the Government's comms team have done a real number here, because rather than apportion blame exactly where it should be, they concoct bull5hit stories about "others" to deflect attention from their own failings. It's a classic smokescreen and, worryingly, it appears to be working.

There's a reason the Government don't fix the litany of things which are wrong with this country - they profit from not doing so. And when questioned, they blame someone else and a large section of the electorate BELIEVE THEM

The fallacy of government debt in the very first sentence is sufficient acknowledgement of that very point.
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I hope you're not accusing Facefuzz of being an easily fooled idiot, because I'd like to get in there first.
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
I hope you're not accusing Facefuzz of being an easily fooled idiot, because I'd like to get in there first.
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To be fair, he's either that or a racist that WANTS to believe the things he says. I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt and call him gullible
 
Ok then. If government debt is a falacy, if the money is there, then why don’t labour just call them out? Show us that we’re getting robbed and have them out of office?
The money isn’t there for everything, education, defence, health, emergency services, energy subsides, paying back debt, infrastructure, social care. There simply isn’t the money to service the demand on all of the services that there once was.
I was surprised it took a while for racism to get mentioned so well done.
I’m a big advocate of lowering numbers and protecting the planet, animals and resources. We simply live on a small chunk of earth with finite resources.
You only have to look at Middlesbrough. No green on the map between Middlesbrough and nunthorpe or Thornaby except for Stewart and Albert park. Green belt is being eaten up. Low gill, flats lane, coulby newham, grey towers, brass castle to name a few.
These factors, although they don’t fall in line with your utopia, are all real
Like I say, is Rwanda the answer? Probably not.
 
Facefuzz said:
Because it’s true. Ukraine has cost a fortune and that will be getting paid back forever and a day, on top of Covid. There simply isn’t enough money to do everything. It’s basic economics but people don’t see that now. People live beyond their means and expect governments to do the same.
The other factor is space. High intensity on resources in this country are bleeding it dry. We have water shortages, we don’t grow enough food for ourselves and have to import it. There’s talk of energy not being available to everybody all of the time. There’s not enough houses. There’s not the land to build houses unless more green belt is taken. Only yesterday it was announced the massive % of wildlife lost or threatened in this country.
I think there has to be a solution to the problem, as it currently isn’t working, is Rwanda the answer? Probably not. Does asylum need sorting prior to entry? Probably yes.
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As said, the money and the space are available, it's all just being kept from the majority by the minority. The minority of rich people then say there's no money and blame the migrants/asylum seekers. They point to the 4million a day it costs to keep people in hotels, without admitting they have reduced the capacity to process claims. They say they can't counter fraud, whilst hiding the fact there are less tax inspectors, and the ones they have are looking at small fry, ignoring the big-hitters.

The wrong minorities are being attacked, we should be going after the wealthy minority.

A dead quick google shows the following:

1% of people in the uk have an average of 3.4million pounds of wealth. That's average, so lots will be on much more.
10% of people in the uk have 43% of the wealth, bottom 50% have 9% of the wealth
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...althiest 10% of households,of £15,400 or less.
9 billion quid spuffed up the wall during covid, mainly through corruption
9 billion

A third of land in England and Wales is still owned by the aristocracy, according to Country Life magazine's most recent Who Owns Britain survey. Some 36,000 people, 0.6 percent of the population, own more than half of rural land in England and Wales.
https://socialistworker.co.uk/background-check/who-owns-britain-how-the-rich-kept-hold-of-land/

The space is there, the money is there, it's being kept from us. And incredibly instead of looking at that we go after the 0.3% of benefits cheats or some people in a dinghy.

To be fair to facefuzz, he mentioned earlier we should process claims at point of claim. People should be able to claim asylum in france or wherever and have those claims processed there. It would stop many of these crossings (not all). But obviously our government have so far refused to allow that.
 
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