No, not taking the P, just asking a question to point out the inconsistencies in the argument around 'indoctrination'Sorry , didn't realise that you are taking the P.
You have the floor pal.
No, not taking the P, just asking a question to point out the inconsistencies in the argument around 'indoctrination'Sorry , didn't realise that you are taking the P.
You have the floor pal.
Go on then......and the punchline is?So the Catholic understanding is that Man was not meant to die. Death entered the world with sin, and all mankind since (with 2 exceptions) have continued to contribute to the brokenness of the world in this respect.
So Catholic belief is that the world was created "good" then our addition to it made Gods creation "very good". We were created with free will, hence we can choose to go against God's will (sin is 'missing the mark' in Hebrew which I always find to be a comforting image) My earlier points are based on this understanding. We have been created for God, and "our hearts are restless until they rest in you" is the beautiful way St Augustine described the whole human condition. There's no conflict between us having free will with God being all knowing and all powerful. Without free will we would have been created 'puppets'Go on then......and the punchline is?
Genuinely??? Kinda jars with the " all knowing and all mighty God " stuff doesn't it??
(Added in edit) if we were made to worship. How did we end up sinning? Shoddy workmanship??
And lets face it, there is a lot to hate about certain religions, the way people are marginalized and tortured for sexual orientation etc , or for the religious crime of being born femaleMany hate crimes are perpetrated based on ignorance regarding religion. These range from the belief that Jews drink the blood of children in the middle ages, to the more modern belief that Islam fundamentally promotes terrorism.
Such beliefs are based on ignorance; surely more ignorance is not going to help matters?
If schools don't teach comparative religion, you hand power to those who will exploit ignorance to stir up hatered.
I'm not religious, but I am a pragmatist, and religion exists. We therefore have to deal with it. We cannot ignore it and hope it will go away.
but I would ask you to consider who has told you this and why you choose to believe it?
Although religion as a subject isn't compulsory, schools are still required to carry out a daily act of collective worship, which should be predominantly Christian in nature.No non-core subject has been compulsory for decades. I left school in 1992 and I'd dropped RE after 3rd year secondary.
Whereas you are not at all invested in your worldview? Science (evolution) can only help tell us how, not why, we are here. On a scientific note, none of the writings we call the New Testament were written later than about 100 AD, give or take a decade. Translation (and transcription) errors occur, but the sheer number of copies of the New Testament writings mean they are the best attested writings from antiquity. You can rely on them as a true reflection of what the writers wanted to say about Jesus. Not sure what you are thinking of when you say they were "sifted through" as noone could change what was written in them after they were written, there isn't a gap in the historical record and the beliefs of the early Church. Jesus was historical, yes, and the decision then is whether you believe what he said about himself when he was amongst his disciples, and what others said of him at the time. He changed the world when he was born, died and rose again. As for talking like a priest, apologies, I am just trying to take some of the heat out of the discussion on here by staying fairly neutral in tone as it can be a very anti-faith crowd on hereYou talk like a Priest. Your too invested to think rationally.
An education taught me evolution.
Not a collection of stories translated many times, written hundred of years after the events ( yes, JC is a historical fact) and even then it was sifted through ( many times) to fit the then powers.
Is evolution not a fact??
I choose to believe in Jesus Christ, my God who became Man, who was born, died and rose again. I was brought up to believe, as you do, that the writings about him were unreliable (and that was in a Catholic school) but when I was debating my faith with a Muslim friend of mine at college, his knowledge of the Old Testament (and accusations about forgery in the New) prompted me to go and have a look again as I had not really studied scripture or grown in my faith since I was about 15. I had faith "in" God but not a faith in what God said (his promises for me) after that time. I was sure Jesus was who he said he was, and that the Christian faith was true. I now believe that God's promises are as true for me as they are for everyone, but that is another storyI would ask why you choose to believe in the New Testament, a book which is riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions, right from the lineage of Jesus, through the nativity to the death and resurrection, plus the issues with all the books attributed to Paul and many other points I could raise… but if you can get past all that and believe then fair enough!
Sure, evolution can't tell us why we are here, as if there has to be a purpose to begin withWhereas you are not at all invested in your worldview? Science (evolution) can only help tell us how, not why, we are here. On a scientific note, none of the writings we call the New Testament were written later than about 100 AD, give or take a decade. Translation (and transcription) errors occur, but the sheer number of copies of the New Testament writings mean they are the best attested writings from antiquity. You can rely on them as a true reflection of what the writers wanted to say about Jesus. Not sure what you are thinking of when you say they were "sifted through" as noone could change what was written in them after they were written, there isn't a gap in the historical record and the beliefs of the early Church. Jesus was historical, yes, and the decision then is whether you believe what he said about himself when he was amongst his disciples, and what others said of him at the time. He changed the world when he was born, died and rose again. As for talking like a priest, apologies, I am just trying to take some of the heat out of the discussion on here by staying fairly neutral in tone as it can be a very anti-faith crowd on here
I think we all have a choice, the days when we are forced or shamed into attending mass are gone.Whereas you are not at all invested in your worldview? Science (evolution) can only help tell us how, not why, we are here. On a scientific note, none of the writings we call the New Testament were written later than about 100 AD, give or take a decade. Translation (and transcription) errors occur, but the sheer number of copies of the New Testament writings mean they are the best attested writings from antiquity. You can rely on them as a true reflection of what the writers wanted to say about Jesus. Not sure what you are thinking of when you say they were "sifted through" as noone could change what was written in them after they were written, there isn't a gap in the historical record and the beliefs of the early Church. Jesus was historical, yes, and the decision then is whether you believe what he said about himself when he was amongst his disciples, and what others said of him at the time. He changed the world when he was born, died and rose again. As for talking like a priest, apologies, I am just trying to take some of the heat out of the discussion on here by staying fairly neutral in tone as it can be a very anti-faith crowd on here
So, apart from your faith that it does, can you tell me how evolution proves that "every religion is made up fiction"? It's proposed longevity says nothing about a pre-existing Deity, for example.Sure, evolution can't tell us why we are here, as if there has to be a purpose to begin with
But it does prove that every religion is made up fiction as evolution predates all religions by millons of years and
evolution is not a belief, it's indesputable
Does something 'exist' outside of reality or guide carbon based organic life in some way, who knows
But we do know all religions are made up fantasy nonsense, and that is the topic of the debate, not the existence of a magical entity
I don't have a position of faith, that's you, in the same sense you have faith that a giant bunny rabbit didn't create the heavens and earthSo, apart from your faith that it does, can you tell me how evolution proves that "every religion is made up fiction"? It's proposed longevity says nothing about a pre-existing Deity, for example.
im not even going to read this. Id no more use my time trying to argue with an 18 year old about the existence of Santa. Both of you are old enough to know better., delusional and a little bit silly.Whereas you are not at all invested in your worldview? Science (evolution) can only help tell us how, not why, we are here. On a scientific note, none of the writings we call the New Testament were written later than about 100 AD, give or take a decade. Translation (and transcription) errors occur, but the sheer number of copies of the New Testament writings mean they are the best attested writings from antiquity. You can rely on them as a true reflection of what the writers wanted to say about Jesus. Not sure what you are thinking of when you say they were "sifted through" as noone could change what was written in them after they were written, there isn't a gap in the historical record and the beliefs of the early Church. Jesus was historical, yes, and the decision then is whether you believe what he said about himself when he was amongst his disciples, and what others said of him at the time. He changed the world when he was born, died and rose again. As for talking like a priest, apologies, I am just trying to take some of the heat out of the discussion on here by staying fairly neutral in tone as it can be a very anti-faith crowd on here