No, not taking the P, just asking a question to point out the inconsistencies in the argument around 'indoctrination'
Religious education in schools
- Thread starter Quicksilvera
- Start date
Osboro
Well-known member
Go on then......and the punchline is?
Genuinely??? Kinda jars with the " all knowing and all mighty God " stuff doesn't it??
(Added in edit) if we were made to worship. How did we end up sinning? Shoddy workmanship??
So Catholic belief is that the world was created "good" then our addition to it made Gods creation "very good". We were created with free will, hence we can choose to go against God's will (sin is 'missing the mark' in Hebrew which I always find to be a comforting image) My earlier points are based on this understanding. We have been created for God, and "our hearts are restless until they rest in you" is the beautiful way St Augustine described the whole human condition. There's no conflict between us having free will with God being all knowing and all powerful. Without free will we would have been created 'puppets'
Osboro
Well-known member
You talk like a Priest. Your too invested to think rationally.
An education taught me evolution.
Not a collection of stories translated many times, written hundred of years after the events ( yes, JC is a historical fact) and even then it was sifted through ( many times) to fit the then powers.
Is evolution not a fact??
An education taught me evolution.
Not a collection of stories translated many times, written hundred of years after the events ( yes, JC is a historical fact) and even then it was sifted through ( many times) to fit the then powers.
Is evolution not a fact??
Gunslinger
Well-known member
And lets face it, there is a lot to hate about certain religions, the way people are marginalized and tortured for sexual orientation etc , or for the religious crime of being born female
I think in that context it strengthens my argument, surely you can't teach people to be tolerant of that, so what you call religous hatred i define as religious intolerance
and the dark side of religion should not be tolerated as it is evil, hence why there needs to be a happy medium and understanding that criticising religion should not
be evalluated as being intolerant, bad ideas should be criticised
I would ask why you choose to believe in the New Testament, a book which is riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions, right from the lineage of Jesus, through the nativity to the death and resurrection, plus the issues with all the books attributed to Paul and many other points I could raise… but if you can get past all that and believe then fair enough!
Although religion as a subject isn't compulsory, schools are still required to carry out a daily act of collective worship, which should be predominantly Christian in nature.
h_m_boro
Well-known member
I want to a normal, rough as chuff primary school in a mining village.
No real religion taught/beat into us, but boy could we belt out the Lord's Prayer and some classic hymns/songs (piano accompanying).
Nothing really to do with the thread, just thought I'd drop it in there........
No real religion taught/beat into us, but boy could we belt out the Lord's Prayer and some classic hymns/songs (piano accompanying).
Nothing really to do with the thread, just thought I'd drop it in there........
Laughing
Well-known member
I am not sure why any thread on religion turns into making fun of anyone who believes in a personal god. Whilst I am mostly atheist as I work very much in a scientific industry, we none of us know whether there is a god or not. Scriptures from religion are clearly not based on many facts we could independently coroborate but none of this means there is not a creator.
As for religion being taught in schools. Of course it should, it forms an important part of the world we live in.
As for religion being taught in schools. Of course it should, it forms an important part of the world we live in.
Whereas you are not at all invested in your worldview? Science (evolution) can only help tell us how, not why, we are here. On a scientific note, none of the writings we call the New Testament were written later than about 100 AD, give or take a decade. Translation (and transcription) errors occur, but the sheer number of copies of the New Testament writings mean they are the best attested writings from antiquity. You can rely on them as a true reflection of what the writers wanted to say about Jesus. Not sure what you are thinking of when you say they were "sifted through" as noone could change what was written in them after they were written, there isn't a gap in the historical record and the beliefs of the early Church. Jesus was historical, yes, and the decision then is whether you believe what he said about himself when he was amongst his disciples, and what others said of him at the time. He changed the world when he was born, died and rose again. As for talking like a priest, apologies, I am just trying to take some of the heat out of the discussion on here by staying fairly neutral in tone as it can be a very anti-faith crowd on here
I choose to believe in Jesus Christ, my God who became Man, who was born, died and rose again. I was brought up to believe, as you do, that the writings about him were unreliable (and that was in a Catholic school) but when I was debating my faith with a Muslim friend of mine at college, his knowledge of the Old Testament (and accusations about forgery in the New) prompted me to go and have a look again as I had not really studied scripture or grown in my faith since I was about 15. I had faith "in" God but not a faith in what God said (his promises for me) after that time. I was sure Jesus was who he said he was, and that the Christian faith was true. I now believe that God's promises are as true for me as they are for everyone, but that is another story
Gunslinger
Well-known member
Sure, evolution can't tell us why we are here, as if there has to be a purpose to begin withWhereas you are not at all invested in your worldview? Science (evolution) can only help tell us how, not why, we are here. On a scientific note, none of the writings we call the New Testament were written later than about 100 AD, give or take a decade. Translation (and transcription) errors occur, but the sheer number of copies of the New Testament writings mean they are the best attested writings from antiquity. You can rely on them as a true reflection of what the writers wanted to say about Jesus. Not sure what you are thinking of when you say they were "sifted through" as noone could change what was written in them after they were written, there isn't a gap in the historical record and the beliefs of the early Church. Jesus was historical, yes, and the decision then is whether you believe what he said about himself when he was amongst his disciples, and what others said of him at the time. He changed the world when he was born, died and rose again. As for talking like a priest, apologies, I am just trying to take some of the heat out of the discussion on here by staying fairly neutral in tone as it can be a very anti-faith crowd on here
But it does prove that every religion is made up fiction as evolution predates all religions by millons of years and
evolution is not a belief, it's indesputable
Does something 'exist' outside of reality or guide carbon based organic life in some way, who knows
But we do know all religions are made up fantasy nonsense, and that is the topic of the debate, not the existence of a magical entity
mercury_redstone7
Well-known member
I think we all have a choice, the days when we are forced or shamed into attending mass are gone.Whereas you are not at all invested in your worldview? Science (evolution) can only help tell us how, not why, we are here. On a scientific note, none of the writings we call the New Testament were written later than about 100 AD, give or take a decade. Translation (and transcription) errors occur, but the sheer number of copies of the New Testament writings mean they are the best attested writings from antiquity. You can rely on them as a true reflection of what the writers wanted to say about Jesus. Not sure what you are thinking of when you say they were "sifted through" as noone could change what was written in them after they were written, there isn't a gap in the historical record and the beliefs of the early Church. Jesus was historical, yes, and the decision then is whether you believe what he said about himself when he was amongst his disciples, and what others said of him at the time. He changed the world when he was born, died and rose again. As for talking like a priest, apologies, I am just trying to take some of the heat out of the discussion on here by staying fairly neutral in tone as it can be a very anti-faith crowd on here
I think when I come across a person who follows a religion I've learnt to just let them be, as they don't need me telling them any reasons or thoughts of mine and not to go into any deep discussion and just respect that's what they do.
As I expect to be left alone by the religious followers too, and for them not to spread their Gospel to me. I think that's why the Catholic Church has dwindling attendances, in some areas, parish school and church have been knocked down and I believe they now take it in turns to hold Saturday night or Sunday mass in Stockton. So they get a full house at least one day a week.
They don't knock on doors now (as a kid we used to get the priest on his bike turn up at the door if you missed mass for a few weeks) I think its one of those denominations that are passed down from generation to generation, but that seems to be dwindling away rapidly now.
Bristolboro
Well-known member
Forget about Gods and religions, just be nice to each other. Put that on the curriculum instead.
sweet_left_foot
Well-known member
Every maker I meet, I'll be asking for a refund.
I do love a schism though. Its like man saying that God is a bit wrong, lets start a new business to make a better prophet.
Come on boro- true religion
I do love a schism though. Its like man saying that God is a bit wrong, lets start a new business to make a better prophet.
Come on boro- true religion
So, apart from your faith that it does, can you tell me how evolution proves that "every religion is made up fiction"? It's proposed longevity says nothing about a pre-existing Deity, for example.
Gunslinger
Well-known member
I don't have a position of faith, that's you, in the same sense you have faith that a giant bunny rabbit didn't create the heavens and earth
Is it faith to suggest Harry Potter and middle earth are fictional?
The central tenet of evolution is that we evolved from simpler life, we are after all , still eukaryotes, and have been for millions of years ,
so were still the same clade as we always were
Religion teaches the opposite of evolution.............and geology...and cosmology, so the burden of proof is on you as i already have
all the evidence i need , whereas you have a book written by illterate cave dwelling jews
Osboro
Well-known member
im not even going to read this. Id no more use my time trying to argue with an 18 year old about the existence of Santa. Both of you are old enough to know better., delusional and a little bit silly.Whereas you are not at all invested in your worldview? Science (evolution) can only help tell us how, not why, we are here. On a scientific note, none of the writings we call the New Testament were written later than about 100 AD, give or take a decade. Translation (and transcription) errors occur, but the sheer number of copies of the New Testament writings mean they are the best attested writings from antiquity. You can rely on them as a true reflection of what the writers wanted to say about Jesus. Not sure what you are thinking of when you say they were "sifted through" as noone could change what was written in them after they were written, there isn't a gap in the historical record and the beliefs of the early Church. Jesus was historical, yes, and the decision then is whether you believe what he said about himself when he was amongst his disciples, and what others said of him at the time. He changed the world when he was born, died and rose again. As for talking like a priest, apologies, I am just trying to take some of the heat out of the discussion on here by staying fairly neutral in tone as it can be a very anti-faith crowd on here