motownjunk
Well-known member
Why not? Natural gas boilers are banned from 2035. Hydrogen boilers will sure replace them. The energy density of hydrogen is much higher. Plus no carbon dioxide released when burnt.
Redcar Hydrogen Community?
- Thread starter TheYorkshireTerrier
- Start date
ThePrisoner
Well-known member
What about heat pumps?
thewanderer
Well-known member
Why not? Because it is hard to store, hard to transport, it leaks alot and will cause embrittlement to steel, so expect the maintenance of this gas grid to astronomical.
Also it takes about 3 units of electricity to produce 1 unit of hydrogen. A hydrogen boiler will take 1 unit of hydrogen and turn it into about 0.8 units of heat... It makes no economic sense.
For comparison a ASHP will use 1unit of electricity and produce between 2.5 and 3 units of heat.
Oh well if TWI are building a research centre everything should be okay. Theyd be the last people I'd go to for advice.
I can say it because I know. The American standard for building transportation systems for hydrogen is 6 times bigger then the UK standard. Catastrophic failure due to hydrogen embrittlement and in particular in the heat affected zone and areas of stress concentration is not being sufficiently investigated.
Its not even known if standard construction techniques can be adopted for hydrogen
Fundamentals such as material qualification and laboratory testing of Industry standard materials is being ignored.
Even with all of that the skills knowledge and experience required to build pipelines to the high standards we set in this country for methame pipelines have all gone. Its a decade since we built anything of any consequence. People have retired, add IR35 into mix and the jobs will never be manned up with anything other than idiots chancers and cowboys.
Just how it is.
asredastheycome
Well-known member
Which is where
Redwurzel
Well-known member
My guess is nuclear and renewables.
I have asked the question before on threads on here about electric vehicles and heat pumps and not got an answer.
To me you have to explore other alternatives too that do not add carbon to the atmosphere.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
Sorry, without seeing this, I've just posted this above. I wonder how much it cost us?
Norman, £100s millions have been spent on the big Hydrogen lie, and continue to be spent.
H2 never was vaiable for domestic use, it's a scam generated by Gas Operators because without it they don't have a business.
The notion is crazy that 3x the amount of H2 is needed to produce the same amount of energy the Natural Gas does and that H2 is planned to be produced by burning Natural Gas.
And the Carbon from that is pumped offshore to be stored, more expense.
And it goes on. Some schemes are on their 3rd round of funding for the same proposals just badged up differently.
Scam.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
This must have gone out to all the postal addresses in the area.
Teesside96
Active member
I attended a free course and Edx (Edinburgh open uni) on carbon capture underground storage and hydrogen being used as a replacement for methane.
I recommend people to enrol and take the course (probably takes about 12 hours in total)
It answers a lot of concern on questions people ask. It’s not a very biased course as it outlines dangers of the project. In theory yes hydrogen is a smaller particle and has the option to leak easier than methane, but control measures mitigate this. It’s also alot lighter that stops it hanging around if there is a leak.
I’m very excited and honored that
My area is leading the way to the development of this project. I think it’s the future
I recommend people to enrol and take the course (probably takes about 12 hours in total)
It answers a lot of concern on questions people ask. It’s not a very biased course as it outlines dangers of the project. In theory yes hydrogen is a smaller particle and has the option to leak easier than methane, but control measures mitigate this. It’s also alot lighter that stops it hanging around if there is a leak.
I’m very excited and honored that
My area is leading the way to the development of this project. I think it’s the future
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Not a chance its safer than Methane.
The LEL level of H2 is 4 to 75%
The LEL of Methane is 5 to 50%
And they don't have a handle on control measures.
They're still running trials at Spadeadam.
PIGS self combust in H2, they don't with Methane,
PIGS smash into pig trap doors with H2, they don't with Methane
Nobody really knows the impact of stress in service with high strength steels with H2
Traditional Pipeline Welding techniques can't be used on H2 pipelines.
Mid wall delamination occurs in high strength steels under H2 service, it doesn't with Methane.
It goes on and on.
But Methane is burned to produce the H2, at a rate of 3x the volume of H2 equivalent energy!
Renewables can't get anywhere the volume of Green H2 needed to replace Methane.
Which is why the majority of H2 produced will be Blue H2.
It's a massive scam generated by the O&G Companies to stay in business.
Burn more Methane then we currently do and store the C02 offshore.
It's a win win for the O&G Companies.
JonnyHistory
Well-known member
Have mixed feelings on this.
The opposition to the project was whipped up by a businessman who sells heat pumps and wrecked the plan in another part of the UK previously; so not sure how genuine the anti-Hydrogen sentiment is.
The deal to residents was decent and they could opt out.
Overall I am not convinced Hydrogen is the long-term solution for domestic use though so maybe for the best?!
One thing is certain though,. people are always all for new initiatives just rarely on their own doorstep.
The opposition to the project was whipped up by a businessman who sells heat pumps and wrecked the plan in another part of the UK previously; so not sure how genuine the anti-Hydrogen sentiment is.
The deal to residents was decent and they could opt out.
Overall I am not convinced Hydrogen is the long-term solution for domestic use though so maybe for the best?!
One thing is certain though,. people are always all for new initiatives just rarely on their own doorstep.
Scrote
Well-known member
I'm in the catchment area and had mixed feelings. I started off being in favour but as more information has come out I was probably going to opt for the electric alternative.
If I thought there'd be any real effort put in to upgrading the whole delivery network then I'd probably have been okay with it but I got the feeling that the reason this wasn't beng done in Chelsea was because there might be some serious problems down the line.
If I thought there'd be any real effort put in to upgrading the whole delivery network then I'd probably have been okay with it but I got the feeling that the reason this wasn't beng done in Chelsea was because there might be some serious problems down the line.
Thanks for this. Just enrolled on the Carbon Course.
Teesside96
Active member
Good points and I admit I was wrong on the UEL and LEL I was passed that information on by somebody else without fact checking it first.
TheYorkshireTerrier
Well-known member
I was in the trial area and must admit I’m quite relieved it’s been cancelled.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
I was speaking to the engineer that services my Natural Gas boiler. He has also worked recently for a heat pump installer. His opinion was that Heat Pumps are not suitable for older properties because heat pumps need very well insulated properties (say post 1990 builds). Heat pumps can only release heat slowly.
If true we need to think about alternatives to heat pumps for many properties. Transport will obviously be using massive amounts of electricity in the future, so I suspect alot of new electricity will need to be generated in 10 + years time.
He confirmed that hydrogen will easily leak because it can find smaller holes, so new pipework will be required. Having said a lot of natural gas currently uses iron pipes into homes, opposed to plastic. Iron should not be used for natural gas, because of explosion risk.
If true we need to think about alternatives to heat pumps for many properties. Transport will obviously be using massive amounts of electricity in the future, so I suspect alot of new electricity will need to be generated in 10 + years time.
He confirmed that hydrogen will easily leak because it can find smaller holes, so new pipework will be required. Having said a lot of natural gas currently uses iron pipes into homes, opposed to plastic. Iron should not be used for natural gas, because of explosion risk.
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
We already move hydrogen around Teesside through pipelines. How do we do this now?