Michael_Vronsky
Well-known member
Oh right. So that's why Muttley's using it as he doesn't rate Warnock. Makes sense now.
Really frustrated with Warnock
- Thread starter parmoboy
- Start date
Oh right. So that's why Muttley's using it as he doesn't rate Warnock. Makes sense now.
McBrid
Well-known member
One thing I hate is when managers make ‘like for like subs’.
To bring on for Tav for Roberts, Nmecha for Fletcher, Coulson for Johnson, Wing and McNair for Morrison and Saville.
What has really changed there ? It’s just the personnel. So really all he is doing is bringing on players in the same formation that he didn’t think were good enough to start the game to try and turn it around and win for us. You’ve got to do more than that, it was clear the Moukoudi thing wasn’t working and a change of shape was imperative, in fact I would suggest even just a couple of subs would of done the trick. I would of brought Friend and Morrison off for And dropped Moukoudi back in defence and went with the wing backs system. I would of fancied us to create more if we did that and who knows, we might of even got something out of the game.
coluka
Well-known member
He changed it to match up with how they play. They had pace and he matched it up as pound for pound we were better. He nullified their system quite well. We lost it due to individual errors that he had no control over. Johnsons stupid foul and the great switch off at the end. I think if he set up as Stoke they get behind us down the wing.
Today however, Moukoudi in midfield and Howson at the back had me lost.
We need to play 3-5-2 Roberts with a free role behind Fletch and Britt, Spence and Coulson as Wing backs and stick with it game in game out. Just my two peneth
parmoboy
Well-known member
I do agree with that, and I think we need a massive clearout in the summer, regardless of what division we're in, but we've only got 5 games left this season. Warnock's been brought in because of his reputation, and his experience. I accept he's not a miracle worker, but I don't think he should be above criticsm either. On one hand we can say it's not his fault that the players lack motivation, but one thing I kept hearing after he was appointed was how he's a great motivator, and will give the players the 'kick up the ****' they need.
Same_as_before
Well-known member
To think these same people thought he was the Messiah only just over a week ago.
It's why fans do not make decisions
It's why fans do not make decisions
American_Mary
Well-known member
I thought Warnock would at least get us organised and make us hard to beat, he has failed to do that.
He’s tinkered and changed both personnel and formation with no positive outcome, the football is as bad as anything we’ve witnessed and unless he comes up with solutions very quickly then we will be a 3rd tier club next season.
As much as others would be culpable he came to a club that was outside the relegation places when he arrived and has enough games to keep us up, I was concerned from my first hand experiences of him years ago and there’s has been very little, especially in the last two games, that have done anything to allay those worries.
He’s tinkered and changed both personnel and formation with no positive outcome, the football is as bad as anything we’ve witnessed and unless he comes up with solutions very quickly then we will be a 3rd tier club next season.
As much as others would be culpable he came to a club that was outside the relegation places when he arrived and has enough games to keep us up, I was concerned from my first hand experiences of him years ago and there’s has been very little, especially in the last two games, that have done anything to allay those worries.
parmoboy
Well-known member
It's crazy to think he played the full 90 minutes as a holding midfielder. Maddo kept making the point that we didn't need him in there when we were chasing the game and I agreed, especially after Eze went off.
It's like I said, maybe the expectations I set for Warnock were too high but it just surprises me how an experienced manager like him can't see things which are so obvious to us. Of course we're only fans, but most of us seem to be in agreement of what changes needed to be made today, and when they needed to be made yet Warnock did something different.
coluka
Well-known member
Well my first hand experiences are very different to yours A_M, as we have discussed before.
He is nothing like the man fans often perceive. I would not want anyone else in charge right now. Hull are 1 point and a worse goal difference and a host only a win away of being below us
He can not work miracles. The squad is too soft, no leaders, no fighters. We had 15 shots today, Fletcher and Nmecha should have scored. We have no fullbacks, only wing backs poor CBs Warnock has to keep trying to instil confidence in a day or two, little opportunity between games to train or work with them the games are so thick and fast. Whoever put the squad together is to blame.
McBrid
Well-known member
Agree with what you are saying about the wing backs. Yet he keeps playing 4 at the back. It’s not working, he really needs to change that otherwise the fans are gonna get frustrated with Warnock aswell. Seems he would favour a 4 at the back system but we don’t have the players for it, the sooner he gets his head around that the better.
Alvez_48
Well-known member
Didn't see the game today too busy but some of these anti Warnock comments this early are laughable.
That team selection with Mokoudi in midfield was still 10x more coherent than woodgates effort Vs Swansea.
I get it's frustrating given that it seemed he had figured it out straight away against Stoke but clearly something about that lineup put him off. He tried 1 up top and realised it wouldn't work so he's gone back to two up top and figured that between those 5 advanced players we would create chances and score. He might have thought Mokoudi would cover the defence as a result.
One thing is for damn certain he knows more about getting results than woodgate and all of us, if we go down it won't be his fault.
That team selection with Mokoudi in midfield was still 10x more coherent than woodgates effort Vs Swansea.
I get it's frustrating given that it seemed he had figured it out straight away against Stoke but clearly something about that lineup put him off. He tried 1 up top and realised it wouldn't work so he's gone back to two up top and figured that between those 5 advanced players we would create chances and score. He might have thought Mokoudi would cover the defence as a result.
One thing is for damn certain he knows more about getting results than woodgate and all of us, if we go down it won't be his fault.
McBrid
Well-known member
If you never seen the game you won’t really get the frustration. The call to start Moukoudi there initially was baffling. But you get your head around that and you see how the game pans out, we then go 1-0 down. And it gets to half time, there is no need for Moukoudi at that point as he wasn’t really doing anything any way and we need to get back in he game. I don’t care if it’s Neil Warnock, Jonathan Woodgate or Jurgen Klopp as boro manager making that decision it’s an awful in game management decision and just because it’s a manager I wanted in doesn’t mean we shouldn’t question stupidity, as that’s all it was.
Alvez_48
Well-known member
Fair comment, I cannot refute based on a performance I did not see. I can only speculate on the intention.
coluka
Well-known member
Wing backs is our best hope 3-5-2/5-3-2 whatever way you call it. Roberts then has a free role in M/F.
I know people love Coulson, he has bags of pace, but in reality, defensively he isn’t great and as a winger he struggles to beat a man. I would still play him over Johnson in that system. Spence is a much better wing back or attacking RB in a 4 for me than Coulson is on the left, imho. I am not yet convinced on Coulson, but yes, he has potential, and we have no real choice at present.
We were short of full backs In truth and purchased Djiksteel and Bola (Shakes head)
parmoboy
Well-known member
I'm sorry but Woodgate would have been absolutely slated if he'd have made the same decision to try Moukoudi as a defensive midfielder, especially at this stage of the season.
Now's not the time to be experimenting and taking risks. Warnock just needs to be fielding a team which is balanced, and play each player in their natural position where possible. It almost felt as though he was trying to be too clever today.
Let's go back to Spence and Coulson as wing-backs, Howson and Clayton in midfield to give us a bit of bite, and Roberts in behind Britt and Fletcher. Instruct Roberts to get his head up and feed Fletcher and Britt in behind the defence, and Spence and Coulson will provide the width.
McBrid
Well-known member
Agree on Spence, he is far and away the most exciting player we own. The decision from Woodgate to stop playing him was baffling. He will go to play at a high level, he’s a really good player and wing back is his natural position for me. Sooner he is back the better, I do rate Coulson but for me again he’s a wing back. It’s mad, all season long we have called for them both in the team at the same time in wing back positions but for one reason or another (injuries, alleged poor attitude, managers deciding not to play them) we have rarely seen it. I’m convinced if we can do that in the 5 games and get Roberts in behind Fletch and Britt we might just get the points we require to stay up.
Zoophonic
Well-known member
“That team selection with Mokoudi in midfield was still 10x more coherent than woodgates effort Vs Swansea.”
No it really wasn't. They were both equally baffling and atrocious decisions Look I am not a Warnock fan but will concede its a little unfair to lay the blame at his door when he is getting to know the squad in just 8 games. This is a team that should have come out of the lockdown break and bust thei guts to protect our championship status. They look like a team who thought it would be a formality. Ill prepared with no pride or cohesion. Disappointing to say the least.
No it really wasn't. They were both equally baffling and atrocious decisions Look I am not a Warnock fan but will concede its a little unfair to lay the blame at his door when he is getting to know the squad in just 8 games. This is a team that should have come out of the lockdown break and bust thei guts to protect our championship status. They look like a team who thought it would be a formality. Ill prepared with no pride or cohesion. Disappointing to say the least.
American_Mary
Well-known member
Whilst I understand what you’re saying and the squad isn’t great, to be second best against both Hull & QPR with little shape and no cutting edge is desperately poor and I expected more from Warnock in terms of organisation and getting the best out of what he had at his disposal, he doesn’t do coaching as you’ll be well aware, so the lack of time on the training pitch is probably not as relevant as it would be with others. He’s taken us into the bottom three and hasn’t seemed to improve us, obviously there’s mitigation but no one can be satisfied with what we have witnessed in the last two games.
Muttley
Well-known member
Colin was brought in to keep us up. So yes, it will be his fault if we go down. Also blame will lie with Woodgate and everyone else at the club, but Warnock doesn't get a free ride.
The Mokoudi thing was frying my brain watching it, we were overrun in midfield with QPR passing it round us at will, once Hugill went off I could see no reason to persist with him. Yet he played the full 90+. This from the "safe pair of hands" who is here to save us. But what really had me chewing the furniture was, why Mokoudi at all? We have in Adam Clayton a player who can play that role in his sleep. He's on the bench, fit as far as I'm aware, not as tall as Mokoudi but QPR had no particular aerial threat to counter. And then he makes five changes and still Mokoudi is not one of them.
The Mokoudi thing was frying my brain watching it, we were overrun in midfield with QPR passing it round us at will, once Hugill went off I could see no reason to persist with him. Yet he played the full 90+. This from the "safe pair of hands" who is here to save us. But what really had me chewing the furniture was, why Mokoudi at all? We have in Adam Clayton a player who can play that role in his sleep. He's on the bench, fit as far as I'm aware, not as tall as Mokoudi but QPR had no particular aerial threat to counter. And then he makes five changes and still Mokoudi is not one of them.
coluka
Well-known member
Yes, Blackwell is the coach and Jepson his back up. Warnock is very good at lifting players which he clearly has his work cut out to do. He is an old school motivational manager.
Of course the time on the training pitch is relevant, messages and tweaks are not just spoken about they need to practise what the coaches want to do. Games being thick and fast and with a bare squad, we can’t have an intensive session to do that risking injuries and pulls etc. The truth in my opinion, is Gibson should have binned Woodgate as soon as the Lockdown was called. Warnock has not taken us into the bottom three our Chairman, previous manager and players have, along with the fight that other squads have in them. Hull was lost purely because of individual mistakes. We were poor, but we were never as poor as Hull. I accept today was wrong on several levels, but we are a team with little pace, only Roberts, up against a team full of it. Our midfield is pedestrian and we need Roberts in it the Juninho role, not out on the wing. Warnock must do this for me, to give us a fighting chance.
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Who is this Colin people talk about?
It was not a lack of effort but lack of skill IMO. Warnock got the shape all wrong and the subs were wrong and too late. Only Roberts had anything about him and you could see him getting frustrated in the second half and trying to do it all himself.
It was not a lack of effort but lack of skill IMO. Warnock got the shape all wrong and the subs were wrong and too late. Only Roberts had anything about him and you could see him getting frustrated in the second half and trying to do it all himself.