Reality setting in- another season of struggle?

#21
Listen guys I don’t like saying this but here goes . Traditionally over our history we are an upper second tier club .
Something I heard the other day was interesting - Norwich aspired to be one of the "top 26" clubs in the country - what that meant was that there'd be promotions and relegations, but as long as they maintained that ranking, they'd be OK, and the fans would wear it.

I've always thought that that's where we "naturally" fit. We had a brief period where we were in the 7-18 bracket, but that was because Gibbo was competing with millionaires and wasn't being outflanked by billionaires. And that's within very fresh memory which means that fans get impatient when we're paddling around.

But we look miles off even being a "top 26" team now. The team is so thin and packed with players who are great one week and terrible the next. There's no 8/10 every week players. And when was the last time we scored for fun? Even at this level we look short of firepower.

It's not Warnock's fault and I'm sure he'll be tearing his hair out at teh frustrating transfer market, but presumably he must have seen something that he thought he could build on. I just don't know what it is.
 

Michael_Vronsky

Well-known member
#22
You are correct since we joined the league in 1902 we have spent more seasons in the top flight than out of it, more recently though we are a second tier club. The 1998-2009 period was exceptional, and outside the norms over the past 76 years. 32 years in 76 (living memory) does not make us a top flight club. It's like saying Newcastle and Sunderland are consistent trophy winners.

Still doesn't disguise the fact that we have been a top tier club for most of our history and are 'not a small town club punching above its weight' and all the other references that are tossed around to keep us looking small time.
 

Muttley

Well-known member
#24
we have been a top tier club for most of our history
So what?

Ask Bolton fans, Blackpool, etc. There are no guarantees. Fortunes for football clubs can go down as well as up and every single club in existence is trying to improve its status and position. This is the "reality" that many were expecting. Mid table. Anything above = "happy days", below that = "sack the board, etc."
 

Subbuteo_171

Well-known member
#25
Still doesn't disguise the fact that we have been a top tier club for most of our history and are 'not a small town club punching above its weight' and all the other references that are tossed around to keep us looking small time.
We are probably the most under performing club in England relative to the amount of seasons in the top flight, highest finishing position and trophies won. Stoke have one more season than us in the top flight, have a highest finish of 4th compared to 3rd for us, 1 LC win and 1 losing FA Cup Final appearance. Proportionally though they’ve spent less time in the top flight than us, so reckon we can proudly claim that title.

Does that make you feel better? 😃😃😃
 

Nosmo-King

Well-known member
#26
And the common denominator with Blackpool and Bolton? Both very incapable people owning them. Our demise? Totally self- inflicted. Shocking transfer policy, poor managerial appointments, completely devoid of a plan and how we would execute one.

This isn’t recent though is it?Been like it for a while - although some defiantly remain in denial to the shambles we have
 
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newyddion

Well-known member
#27
In Morrison and Nmecha what exactly are we replacing. They were both as useful as me.
we signed them to bring different options to the team. Morrison the attacking midfielder (I think we were looking at Ben Amos this summer to fill a similar role) and Nmecha the quick and powerful striker which is what this China Amechi Akpom is supposed to be.
 

newyddion

Well-known member
#29
And the common denominator with Blackpool and Bolton? Both very poorly people owning them. Our demise? Totally self- inflicted. Shocking transfer policy, poor managerial appointments, completely devoid of a plan and how we would execute one.

This isn’t recent though is it?Been like it for a while - although some defiantly remain in denial to the shambles we have
Monk’s unbalanced transfers we’re disappointing and a golden opportunity missed. Further money was wasted under Pulis and we needed Woodgate to settle the ship financially. Bit of a bargain basement Tony Mowbray. We are in a position to improve the squad right now albeit with limited funds. I'm pretty sure we can do better than Goode, Williams. Amos, Moore & Sanogo
 
#31
The reality we're operating in at the moment is dominated by Coronavirus, without the income from fans attending matches most clubs in the league will be on the brink of financial collapse. Until this is resolved I wouldn't expect the club to be spending much, if any, money on transfers.
The only realistic objective at this moment in time has to be 1. Financial survival 2. Staying in the league, anything else would be a bonus. All clubs apart from a handful are in the same boat. I'm expecting us to be OK because we have a manager who knows what he's doing.

Yes. this is exactly the point. In years to come us staying up in July this year will be seen as a pivotal moment in my opinion. This season is going to be built completely on sand due to all the changing variables, and the fact we still are playing with the threat of a second lockdown means I don't think this is a straightforward 46 game season. I'll reserve judgement till after the transfer window closes but expect a lower half finish. I hope the club is putting in viable plans for 2021-2022, even if its just conversations at the moment.
 

Muttley

Well-known member
#32
And the common denominator with Blackpool and Bolton? Both very incapable people owning them. Our demise? Totally self- inflicted.
We haven't "demised" we are one tier down from where we might hope/expect to be. Bury (remember them?), they have probably gone. No players, no staff, no league to play in, they exist as a "legal entity" only. That's dead. Demised.

It's not just Blackpool and Bolton, you can also look at Wigan, Ipswich, Sunderland, Charlton, Hull, Notts County, Hartlepool and on the other upwards trajectory you might quote Sheffield United, Brighton, Wolves, Harrogate and so on. For every team that is higher than you might expect there will be one whose star is fading. We have no "right" to be in the PL. My first years were in the Stan Anderson years then the "oh so close to glory" Big Jack years. Since then, we have yo-yo'd our way between the top divisions with the odd dip to the third tier (and flirting with extinction) and we have won ONE CUP in getting on for a century and a half.

If this season has to be one of stabilising then so be it. I'm not going to twist my knickers about it.
 

Nosmo-King

Well-known member
#34
I was there in the Stan Anderson days. Expectations were fairly low in those days because we were pretty mediocre for a large part. In fact one of the biggest highlights was getting out of the old 3rd division - who could forget the night of the Oxford game?

My take is we have made error after error ion recent years- something 12 years ago I would not have seen happening. This has been largely down to Gibbo I’m afraid to say. We have thrown away the “advantage” of parachute payments. Any advantage we had through these have been completely and utterly wasted. So my views - tainted if you wish- are borne out of complete and utter frustration. We should be better than where we are. Not a divine right, just if better management skills had been applied - across the board- we wouldn’t have to be contemplating being amongst the dead men of the division
 

Muttley

Well-known member
#35
I'm surprised then as a fan of pretty much the same vintage as me that you are taking that view.

There's very little to be gained by looking over decisions that have led us to this point. They've gone. We are where we are. As I pointed out this is a competition, as we have "fallen back" other teams are having their moment in the spotlight. My take on the Gibson thing is that I still believe that he has the best interests of the club at heart. Yes, he has made mistakes but I can follow the logic that led us to employ Gareth Southgate, Gordon Strachan, Tony Pullis et al as our managers/coaches. I can see errors in our recruitment of course but no team has a 100% recruitment success record.

I would rather we were still buying Brazilian internationals and Champions League winners, but we're not. I don't see our current position as disastrous, it is poor, and we can do better, but we are not as some would have us believe a complete disaster. We'll be back.
 

asredastheycome

Well-known member
#36
We finished 17th and haven't yet replaced Moukoudi, Morrison, Roberts, Nmecha & Gestede (or at least the roles they were supposed to carry out)
Plus we have lost Ayala, Friend and Shotton and replaced them with Hall who doesn't look as good as any of them yet.

We are a lot weaker than last season ATM.
 

Nosmo-King

Well-known member
#37
I’m taking my view because of the wasted opportunity we have spurned. In the 60’s ambition wasn’t in our vocabulary. Sadly I feel we have turned full circle - something that could have been avoided in my opinion.
 

newyddion

Well-known member
#38
Plus we have lost Ayala, Friend and Shotton and replaced them with Hall who doesn't look as good as any of them yet.

We are a lot weaker than last season ATM.
Ayala is a big miss but he left us at the very start of the year. Grant Hall will do the business for us and I expect we'll bring in another centre half to keep it fresh and competitive. Johnson has replaced Friend along with the change of system. I liked Shotton and thought he was under used whilst he was here, great when he played wingback under Pulis but I think Spence will be the better fit (as long as he knuckles down)

I'm happy with Dijksteel moving in and with McNair being pushed back. Rome wasn't built in a day and I do think we'll improve the squad with half a dozen good players before the window closes.. even better than those who we missed out on early doors.
 

Muttley

Well-known member
#39
I’m taking my view because of the wasted opportunity we have spurned.
We didn't "spurn" any opportunity. I'm not sure which opportunity we failed to grasp?

Do you mean after the UEFA cup loss when we appointed Southgate? I suspect I have a different view than you over the state of the club at that point.
 
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