Rav's gonna be watching

viv_andersons_nana said:
Beck was a very good player for us imo. He was instrumental in us getting promoted in 1997/98.
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Decent player but the definition of an arm around the shoulder confidence player, and having Rav in his ear telling him he was **** probably didn't help. Totally agree that he was instrumental in our promotion in 1998, him and Merse often combined well.
 
atypical_boro said:
'Middlesbrough Legend' - ffs
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Not sure if it is a whoosh moment on me.

I`d have to disagree that FFS perhaps meaning Rav isn't a "Middlesbrough Legend"
You must have been around to feel the impact of his signing and also to see his debut and that we achieved more with Ravanelli than we ever did before without him. Ever!

I had to pinch myself when it was announced we had signed the Italian national side or the "Azuri" as Ali Brownlee used to like to say CENTRE FORWARD, fresh from scoring a goal in the European cup final which they won. We bought him from Juventus not Dingle Utd - that was breath taking moment to even contemplate.

Perhaps it went a little bit sideways at the end, but it created football pandemonium, gave us some glorious glorious times, I don't think he will be forgotten for a long long time.

Ive seen some greats and some not so great, but this game was Middlesbroughs finest moment up until then, incredible atmosphere and moment when he whacked that in.
 
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mercury_redstone7 said:
Not sure if it is a whoosh moment on me.

I`d have to disagree that FFS perhaps meaning Rav isn't a "Middlesbrough Legend"
You must have been around to feel the impact of his signing and also to see his debut and that we achieved more with Ravanelli than we ever did before without him. Ever!

I had to pinch myself when it was announced we had signed the Italian national side or the "Azuri" as Ali Brownlee used to like to say CENTRE FORWARD, fresh from scoring a goal in the European cup final which they won. We bought him from Juventus not Dingle Utd - that was breath taking moment to even contemplate.

Perhaps it went a little bit sideways at the end, but it created football pandemonium, gave us some glorious glorious times, I don't think he will be forgotten for a long long time.

Ive seen some greats and some not so great, but this game was Middlesbroughs finest moment up until then, incredible atmosphere and moment when he whacked that in.
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Yeah, think I agree. It's not just about longevity. The impact he made was incredible.

Hat-trick on debut.
2 other Hat-tricks.
First cup final goal.
3 goals in semi-finals.

Last player in how long to score over 30 goals in a season.

Probably less deserving than many others who do have the longevity and consistency over many years, but I think he's still a bit of a club legend. Depending on how you define it of course.
 
mercury_redstone7 said:
Not sure if it is a whoosh moment on me.

I`d have to disagree that FFS perhaps meaning Rav isn't a "Middlesbrough Legend"
You must have been around to feel the impact of his signing and also to see his debut and that we achieved more with Ravanelli than we ever did before without him. Ever!

I had to pinch myself when it was announced we had signed the Italian national side or the "Azuri" as Ali Brownlee used to like to say CENTRE FORWARD, fresh from scoring a goal in the European cup final which they won. We bought him from Juventus not Dingle Utd - that was breath taking moment to even contemplate.

Perhaps it went a little bit sideways at the end, but it created football pandemonium, gave us some glorious glorious times, I don't think he will be forgotten for a long long time.

Ive seen some greats and some not so great, but this game was Middlesbroughs finest moment up until then, incredible atmosphere and moment when he whacked that in.
Click to expand...
Agree with all of that but it doesn’t make him a legend. It was the signing of him that was legendary (and also a mistake), he himself was an arrogant **** and whilst he tended to fancy it at home to Hereford and Derby County, he wasn’t so great away from home, especially in the league (was it 2 goals all season?).

People will say he “highlighted” issues at the club, but Chelsea had all the same issues and Vialli (who had been our first choice signing) didn’t seem to go about it in the same way and isn’t talked about by his Chelsea team mates in the same way.

Rav and Emo - both tools who were nowhere near as good as they thought they were. Yes I loved them when I was 14 but I can look back now and see them for what they were.

Rav started 6 games for Italy in his career. As I say, he was nowhere near as good as he thought he was (and we massively overrated him as fans, too, because of his “profile”). Just my opinion of course.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
The stuff with the Italian press isn’t really that simple, or even true. There’s a Gazetta Football Italia podcast about Rav’s career with James Richardson and Gab Marcotti, and they talk about his move to Boro and his relationship with the media. Whatever he was saying in Italy wasn’t translated properly by the UK press - surprise surprise - and he eventually stopped talking to the press completely.

And some of the stuff he moaned about; the facilities, the nutrition, the work ethic, the drinking culture, he was absolutely spot on. Let’s be fair. He may have been difficult to manage at times or speak his mind but if you sign a top-class Italian striker for mega money don’t be surprised if they behave like a top-class Italian striker signed for mega money.

He must’ve been absolutely astounded at having to train on fields full of dogsh*t after what he’d had with Juventus. People do seem to prefer to moan about Rav being unprofessional at times but to me it’s more unprofessional to be out on the p*ss, as a lot of English and British still were at the time.

We had Rav in the same dressing room as Stampy, Alan Moore and Clayton Blackmore. It’s absolutely mad when you think about it.
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We signed him from Juventus, one of the top teams in the world and we were still very much a small time club with awful facilities at that time. The culture within the English game wasa more like a lads holiday than professional athletes. Must've been like an investment banker getting a job at a payday loan company.

He probably was an **** about it but with hindsight it didn't make sense signing superstars and not improving the other players in the squad so there was such a mismatch in quality, attitudes and professionalism. We really should have been more rounded in our transfer dealings and probably spent a bit less on attack and a bit more on defenders.

Wouldn't change it for the world though. Great times and let's me think "what if..."
 
atypical_boro said:
Agree with all of that but it doesn’t make him a legend. It was the signing of him that was legendary (and also a mistake), he himself was an arrogant **** and whilst he tended to fancy it at home to Hereford and Derby County, he wasn’t so great away from home, especially in the league (was it 2 goals all season?).

People will say he “highlighted” issues at the club, but Chelsea had all the same issues and Vialli (who had been our first choice signing) didn’t seem to go about it in the same way and isn’t talked about by his Chelsea team mates in the same way.

Rav and Emo - both tools who were nowhere near as good as they thought they were. Yes I loved them when I was 14 but I can look back now and see them for what they were.

Rav started 6 games for Italy in his career. As I say, he was nowhere near as good as he thought he was (and we massively overrated him as fans, too, because of his “profile”). Just my opinion of course.
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He scored at Wembley, Old Trafford, Hillsborough, Derby and Stockport in the cups. He scored a hat-trick against Liverpool, scored against Newcastle, Sunderland, Man.United.

We had a terrible, terrible run in the middle third of that season but it was a team thing. The team was unbalanced, the squad way too thin.

Don’t forget we accumulated enough points to finish 14th in the table. Imagine a team finishing 14th now while reaching two cup finals, they’d be celebrated and lauded.

Rav was brought in to win us a trophy and take us into Europe. We came within about a minute of that happening. We did not manage the game with Leicester properly. That’s not Ravanelli’s fault. That’s down to the manager and his staff.

As I said earlier, he was a difficult character to manage. But there’s an argument to be made that Rav, for all the issues around him and his signing, did what he was brought in to do. The other stuff, the off-field stuff - training, tactics, professionalism, etc - perhaps played a part in some of his behaviour.

I just don’t think you can sign someone like that and then moan about it when it brings problems to solve. If you want a quiet life then just play Freestone and Fjortoft instead.
 
atypical_boro said:
Agree with all of that but it doesn’t make him a legend. It was the signing of him that was legendary (and also a mistake), he himself was an arrogant **** and whilst he tended to fancy it at home to Hereford and Derby County, he wasn’t so great away from home, especially in the league (was it 2 goals all season?).

People will say he “highlighted” issues at the club, but Chelsea had all the same issues and Vialli (who had been our first choice signing) didn’t seem to go about it in the same way and isn’t talked about by his Chelsea team mates in the same way.

Rav and Emo - both tools who were nowhere near as good as they thought they were. Yes I loved them when I was 14 but I can look back now and see them for what they were.

Rav started 6 games for Italy in his career. As I say, he was nowhere near as good as he thought he was (and we massively overrated him as fans, too, because of his “profile”). Just my opinion of course.
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A different view, but while I may not fully agree I respect it, you make some real time happened points.
But you have to consider we were a nothing much of a club in the English football world since I started supporting them in the 60s.

Sure we had produced some great players like Mannion, Clough, and bought some we polished into gems like Hickton Souness to name just a couple (I've liked all Boro players in general ) but we flogged anything we polished or anything we had that was any good.
But suddenly it seemed like "our time had arrived" we have a little bit on our CV now, I can pick up an English Football Encyclopaedia with a little pride that we have competed at times.
I always think that 86/87 was the main turning point and the catalyst of what we can look at now and the recent past. Or you could even say 85/86 was ?
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
The stuff with the Italian press isn’t really that simple, or even true. There’s a Gazetta Football Italia podcast about Rav’s career with James Richardson and Gab Marcotti, and they talk about his move to Boro and his relationship with the media. Whatever he was saying in Italy wasn’t translated properly by the UK press - surprise surprise - and he eventually stopped talking to the press completely.

And some of the stuff he moaned about; the facilities, the nutrition, the work ethic, the drinking culture, he was absolutely spot on. Let’s be fair. He may have been difficult to manage at times or speak his mind but if you sign a top-class Italian striker for mega money don’t be surprised if they behave like a top-class Italian striker signed for mega money.

He must’ve been absolutely astounded at having to train on fields full of dogsh*t after what he’d had with Juventus. People do seem to prefer to moan about Rav being unprofessional at times but to me it’s more unprofessional to be out on the p*ss, as a lot of English and British still were at the time.

We had Rav in the same dressing room as Stampy, Alan Moore and Clayton Blackmore. It’s absolutely mad when you think about it.
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Why do Terry Phelan and Steve Clarke talk about Vialli with such affection though? He was also a top class Italian striker (better than Rav) who had to get used to the English culture.

There are also no reports of him, to my knowledge, walking out of restaurants in Yarm etc without paying because “in Italy we footballers do not pay”.

Rav was a knob-end, imo.

(OK, so Vialli wouldn’t have been eating out in Yarm, but you know what I mean).
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Beck was a Danish international, and showed how good he could be when he wasn't getting shouted at by Ravanelli.
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Yeah, wholeheartedly agree.
I think (my memory is fading) there were a few boo boys around at the time for Beck
Suppose if you are Rav or Emerson it is easy yo look at his limitations V their’s/
Easy….. but wrong and some of Rav’s histrionics will have had quite an impact on Beck.

Don’t think Emo was bad on the pitch with Beck tho?
 
atypical_boro said:
Why do Terry Phelan and Steve Clarke talk about Vialli with such affection though? He was also a top class Italian striker (better than Rav) who had to get used to the English culture.

There are also no reports of him, to my knowledge, walking out of restaurants in Yarm etc without paying because “in Italy we footballers do not pay”.

Rav was a knob-end, imo.

(OK, so Vialli wouldn’t have been eating out in Yarm, but you know what I mean).
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Not sure Ravenelli and Vialli can be compared. Two totally different people and characters. Luca Vialli (RIP) was by all accounts an absolute gentleman.

Plus Vialli went to a Chelsea team that was already transforming with loads of European players.
 
Nero said:
Not sure Ravenelli and Vialli can be compared. Two totally different people and characters. Luca Vialli (RIP) was by all accounts an absolute gentleman.

Plus Vialli went to a Chelsea team that was already transforming with loads of European players.
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They had an a twilight Ruud Gullit, who else?

Yes they were different characters, one was a nice guy and the other wasn’t! Ha you’ve pretty much echoed what I was saying.
 
atypical_boro said:
They had an a twilight Ruud Gullit, who else?

Yes they were different characters, one was a nice guy and the other wasn’t! Ha you’ve pretty much echoed what I was saying.
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I know what you mean, but I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. Ravenelli was younger than Vialli and cost a lot of money compared to Vialli signing on a free transfer. Being younger (27) means the maturity probably wasn’t there. Then as mentioned, rocking up to Middlesbrough with temporary facilities after playing for Juventus! Good luck dealing with that as a 27 year old top class Italian striker.

Vialli was 32 when signing for Chelsea, had been one of the best and achieved a lot by that point. He was probably prepared to deal with lower standards in England at that time.

Besides, I’m Pretty sure Chelsea had Zola, Di Matteo, Frank Leboeuf and Ruurd Guilt that season. Plus living and working in London
 
atypical_boro said:
They had an a twilight Ruud Gullit, who else?

Yes they were different characters, one was a nice guy and the other wasn’t! Ha you’ve pretty much echoed what I was saying.
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Petrescu, Mark Hughes, Leboeuf, Di Matteo, Zola.

Maybe if Rav had moved to Chelsea instead of Boro he may have had a different experience of English football. Robson wanted Vialli originally as well. I think Rav was outspoken whereas Vialli may not have been. You’d also have to factor in that one moved to west London, one moved to Yarm. It’s completely different.

The bottom line is that the Boro went for a star striker from abroad and you’d say they didn’t do due diligence beforehand. In terms of how he behaved I mean. If they did do due diligence, and still signed him knowing his character then that’s on them, not Ravanelli.
 
atypical_boro said:
Agree with all of that but it doesn’t make him a legend. It was the signing of him that was legendary (and also a mistake), he himself was an arrogant **** and whilst he tended to fancy it at home to Hereford and Derby County, he wasn’t so great away from home, especially in the league (was it 2 goals all season?).

People will say he “highlighted” issues at the club, but Chelsea had all the same issues and Vialli (who had been our first choice signing) didn’t seem to go about it in the same way and isn’t talked about by his Chelsea team mates in the same way.

Rav and Emo - both tools who were nowhere near as good as they thought they were. Yes I loved them when I was 14 but I can look back now and see them for what they were.

Rav started 6 games for Italy in his career. As I say, he was nowhere near as good as he thought he was (and we massively overrated him as fans, too, because of his “profile”). Just my opinion of course.
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I seem to recall Ravanelli being reported to be in a Man Utd lounge after his first visit there, saying he would like to play for them.

There was far to much smoke to put it all down to misreporting, in my opinion.
 
atypical_boro said:
Agree with all of that but it doesn’t make him a legend. It was the signing of him that was legendary (and also a mistake), he himself was an arrogant **** and whilst he tended to fancy it at home to Hereford and Derby County, he wasn’t so great away from home, especially in the league (was it 2 goals all season?).

People will say he “highlighted” issues at the club, but Chelsea had all the same issues and Vialli (who had been our first choice signing) didn’t seem to go about it in the same way and isn’t talked about by his Chelsea team mates in the same way.

Rav and Emo - both tools who were nowhere near as good as they thought they were. Yes I loved them when I was 14 but I can look back now and see them for what they were.

Rav started 6 games for Italy in his career. As I say, he was nowhere near as good as he thought he was (and we massively overrated him as fans, too, because of his “profile”). Just my opinion of course.
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One man's meat is another man's poison.

How old were you when Rav signed?
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
Petrescu, Mark Hughes, Leboeuf, Di Matteo, Zola.

Maybe if Rav had moved to Chelsea instead of Boro he may have had a different experience of English football. Robson wanted Vialli originally as well. I think Rav was outspoken whereas Vialli may not have been. You’d also have to factor in that one moved to west London, one moved to Yarm. It’s completely different.

The bottom line is that the Boro went for a star striker from abroad and you’d say they didn’t do due diligence beforehand. In terms of how he behaved I mean. If they did do due diligence, and still signed him knowing his character then that’s on them, not Ravanelli.
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Other than Petrescu none of them signed before Vialli, and Petrescu wasn’t a “big name” by any means, but ok he was foreign and an international.

We also brought in internationals at the same time as Rav. Jan was there, Beck, Juninho, Emerson (ok, uncapped).

Hughes was Welsh. We had seasoned British pros like him (Pearson, Hendrie, Hignett) and if you want a “big name” we also had young England forward Barmby.

You’re making excuses for him that really don’t need to be made.
 
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