Quick EV Questions…

MolteniArcore

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
I’m thinking of buying a used VW ID4. I’m not going to consider any others as I have just spotted this one, I like them a lot and if I don’t get it I’ll just keep my petrol motor. But there are some very knowledgable folk on here so could I ask some questions…..

Car is 2021, done 30k and is just below £18k. Will come with 2 years VW warranty and has 4 years left on battery warranty. Yes, I know it’s not got great acceleration and a few other flaws but I still quite fancy it!

1. 52kWh battery - prob will get about 170 miles off a full battery I presume. Is this a decent guess?
2. I do about 10 miles driving a day so was just gonna charge it with a 3 pin plug charger overnight. Online it says this will add about 6 miles per hour of charge and that is more than enough. I presume I could change energy tariff (with Octopus atm) and get cheaper charging overnight?
3. Roughly speaking if I was at a motorway services using a 100kWh charger what would it cost me to charge from say 20% to 80%?
4. These have depreciated a fair bit from new - do you think that kind of depreciation would continue? And if so would a PCP where I can just hand it back after 4 years be a safe option?

Sorry for the daft questions - I hope someone can give me a VERY rough idea of the above. Thanks again!
 
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1. Seems reasonable. Will be lower in the winter, higher in the summer.

2. That's fine for day to day. Charging up if you've done a long drive I'd slower but a 52kwh battery isn't huge so probably charges fully in about 24hrs on a 3 pin.

3. 75p per kWh so 80% is about 40kw which will be £30.

4. Not sure on that. If they've already taken the biggest hit to depreciation you might be ok. If you intend on keeping the car long term I'm not sure it really matters.
 
Nano said:
1. Seems reasonable. Will be lower in the winter, higher in the summer.

2. That's fine for day to day. Charging up if you've done a long drive I'd slower but a 52kwh battery isn't huge so probably charges fully in about 24hrs on a 3 pin.

3. 75p per kWh so 80% is about 40kw which will be £30.

4. Not sure on that. If they've already taken the biggest hit to depreciation you might be ok. If you intend on keeping the car long term I'm not sure it really matters.
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Thanks for that!

I kinda guess then that for 95% of my driving where I can use the 3 pin it’s gonna be cheaper than petrol. Then the odd occasion I need to drive over 150 miles the fast charger will have my eyes out but in the grand scheme of things it’s not worth worrying about.
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
They definitely do for intelligent go, which is their specific EV tariff. You have to add the vehicle charger to the octopus app and initiate a charge before it takes effect.

For standard go it's probably fine.
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They do for Intelligent as it has to be paired, for standard Go they don't.
 
I charge an EV with a much larger battery on a 3 pin plug, and have never had any problems. It charges between 8-9 miles per hour, so as you're not doing long journeys it will be fine, even if it doesn't make that.
 
Primus84 said:
I personally wouldn't regularly charge using a 3 pin plug - it's an awful lot of power to put through a plug over such a long period of time, especially while you're in bed. But it works in a pinch and while you're waiting to get a proper charger installed etc.
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Agreed. If you really need to use a granny charger, at least have your circuitry assessed by a competent electrician. .
 
We have 2 EV in our households due to circumstances... One works for NHS and other works for local authority.. we transferrred to Octopus Intelligent Go which gives us 7p per KWH for usually 6 hours. Using the app and charging the cars through the night it saved us a fortune.
 
sherlock said:
I don’t think you can get specific EV tariffs unless you have an EV charging point.
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You 100% can, nobody is coming out to check that, and I can't think why they would be bothered anyway.

What you can't or couldn't do is get some of the smart tarriffs, as these rely on a connection to the charger, but lots don't need that. Also, now, a lot of them just connect to the car instead and manage it through that.

Like Octopus Go, anyone can get that. Octopus intelligent Go needs a connection to a charger or you have to tell them what EV you have and it needs to be on their list etc, an ID4 should be.
 
MolteniArcore said:
I’m thinking of buying a used VW ID4. I’m not going to consider any others as I have just spotted this one, I like them a lot and if I don’t get it I’ll just keep my petrol motor. But there are some very knowledgable folk on here so could I ask some questions…..

Car is 2021, done 30k and is just below £18k. Will come with 2 years VW warranty and has 4 years left on battery warranty. Yes, I know it’s not got great acceleration and a few other flaws but I still quite fancy it!

1. 52kWh battery - prob will get about 170 miles off a full battery I presume. Is this a decent guess?
2. I do about 10 miles driving a day so was just gonna charge it with a 3 pin plug charger overnight. Online it says this will add about 6 miles per hour of charge and that is more than enough. I presume I could change energy tariff (with Octopus atm) and get cheaper charging overnight?
3. Roughly speaking if I was at a motorway services using a 100kWh charger what would it cost me to charge from say 20% to 80%?
4. These have depreciated a fair bit from new - do you think that kind of depreciation would continue? And if so would a PCP where I can just hand it back after 4 years be a safe option?

Sorry for the daft questions - I hope someone can give me a VERY rough idea of the above. Thanks again!
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I think the iD4 is about 4 miles per kW, so you should get around 200 I would say, in most conditions, but maybe down to that 170 if you're tanking it down the motorway when it's literally ice cold. The faster speeds seem to cane range more than cold does in the UK as it doesn't really get cold here. This applies more to SUV types too, as they're not really aerodynamic, and drag is the enemy of efficiency for EV and ICE, and drag isn't linear with speed, I wish it was.

3 pin plug is fine for your use. You will get about 2.3kW out of that, which in an hour will give you 2.3 x 4 miles per kW = ~10 miles per hour.

Think 100kW chargers are ~75p per kW, and 20-80% is 60%, so lets call that 30kW, so 30kW x 75p = £22, and you would get about 120 miles for that. So, about 18p per mile, about the same as a 35mpg car. Charging at home more like 1.5p per mile, if on an EV tariff.

That's ~50% depreciation over 4 years for a ~40k car, it's really not that bad. The biggest hit is the first 3 years usually, then it slows down. Depends what the PCP balllon is and the rate which goes with it. My guess is you would be better off with a personal loan, unless they give you an unreal rate (which they probably won't on a 2nd hand car).
 
Andy_W said:
I think the iD4 is about 4 miles per kW, so you should get around 200 I would say, in most conditions, but maybe down to that 170 if you're tanking it down the motorway when it's literally ice cold. The faster speeds seem to cane range more than cold does in the UK as it doesn't really get cold here. This applies more to SUV types too, as they're not really aerodynamic, and drag is the enemy of efficiency for EV and ICE, and drag isn't linear with speed, I wish it was.

3 pin plug is fine for your use. You will get about 2.3kW out of that, which in an hour will give you 2.3 x 4 miles per kW = ~10 miles per hour.

Think 100kW chargers are ~75p per kW, and 20-80% is 60%, so lets call that 30kW, so 30kW x 75p = £22, and you would get about 120 miles for that. So, about 18p per mile, about the same as a 35mpg car. Charging at home more like 1.5p per mile, if on an EV tariff.

That's ~50% depreciation over 4 years for a ~40k car, it's really not that bad. The biggest hit is the first 3 years usually, then it slows down. Depends what the PCP balllon is and the rate which goes with it. My guess is you would be better off with a personal loan, unless they give you an unreal rate (which they probably won't on a 2nd hand car).
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Cheers Andy, very helpful. I am very tempted. I was thinking more PCP so I can give it back if the value of the car really nose dives lol!!
 
MolteniArcore said:
Cheers Andy, very helpful. I am very tempted. I was thinking more PCP so I can give it back if the value of the car really nose dives lol!!
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Yeah, I get that, and would probably advise that if getting one new (depends on the baloon), but the thing is, even on new ones loads of places are doing 0% which then the finance savings probably would save any safety net that a PCP would give you.

Just keep in mind that a PCP from 3 years ago might save someone trading their car in now (mines doing this for me), but with PCP's offered now the dealers will be covering their **** as they don't want to be taking cars back which have had less finance paid off than they can realistically sell them for. They want to be making money out of the difference of the value and the baloon, as well as the finance.

So, say if the car was 50k, and they were expecting 30% depreciation/ 70% retained value over 3 years then they might have a balloon set at 35k (so your finance is sort of worked out to pay off 15k). But now, with the market the way it is they might base that baloon on 50% depreciation, so the baloon would be set at 25k (so your finance rate is now worked as to pay off 25k). So, now as the baloon is lower, the finance charges are higher, so you're paying more. Then if the car ends up actually worth more than the baloon you kind of get forced into paying the baloon (even though you might not want to keep the car) or you lose out on the difference of the balloon v what the car is actually worth. It's usually stacked in the dealers favour, as they operate more like a finance company, than a car selling company. They just got caught out at the minute as the values took a nose dive, but once bitten twice shy etc.
 
MolteniArcore said:
Sadly not, I’m lucky to get annual leave!!
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You might be able to do a deal with them with a salary sacrifice, even if they don't do anything like this as standard? Some companies won't do this of course, even though they would be better off from it, but it's largely as they don't understand it. Obviously some are completely unapproachable too, but it's their loss too.

Very rough example: Any payment you make on a car has been taxed at 30,40% or whatever before you even get the money to pay it, so if you can sacrifice say £300 out of your pocket that might be £400 gross, and if they pay for your car at say £350 a month (next to no car tax on EV's) then they're £50 better off, and you have £50 worth of a better car. They can also offset it against the corporation tax or whatever too.
 
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