Question Time

Same_as_before

Well-known member
I don't think the country is split. Outside of this board I have never heard Brexit discussed.

The £ is doing Ok

Housing through the roof.

I can buy Broccoli.

Just had a message reminding of the Hotel in Tenerife we use asking if we will be be back in November.

Every time Jam comes up with the line 'but he got Brexit won' it reminds ex Labour voters he did.

Where I work there are Poles, Rumanians, Greeks. They are not going home.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
You seem so entrenched and angry, what is it about democracy that you are so angry about? We were all given a vote, we all had a say if we wanted to.
As already discussed and already proven in courts, the referendum was flawed. Votes were stolen and unashamed lies told by vote leave, dark money was used, facebook data stolen for dissemination of propaganda. Our democracy wasn't proven by the referendum, it was attacked and weakened by it. You are comfortable with that, I'm not.
Instead of some ‘remainers‘ channelling hate and attempting to belittle those voting for brexit (we are not all the same as some bigots love to claim)
If you look above you will see, that I exactly said that not all brexiteers are foaming idiots, however there is a significant group that ignore reality, logic, evidence, and facts. This was an example. I mean going on national TV to repeat something that has been repeatedly debunked for 5 years, and standing there grinning to the nation, thinking you've scored a point by repeating this idiocy, the mind boggles. This was one person showing the worst kind of brexiteer, a sizeable group, that live in some rhetoric filled hate void. It's not all, as I already pointed out before you did.

I have no truck if democracy decides to rejoin the EU in future.
Nope, that one has lost me.

I will roll with the cards dealt and ensure life carries on and make the best of what time i have left.
So will I, but I will also point out the mistakes of the past, it's a fool that refuses to learn from the past.

Nobody has been brainwashed
Said every brainwashed person ever.

Society is made up of all sorts, well educated and poorly educated people and a great swathe in between
It is, but it has been proven through many studies that those educated further were largely in favour of remain, those with only basic education levels voted heavily to leave. I'm not of the ilk that think knowledge is pointless, that education does not help make more informed decisions. I've not had enough of experts, if you have then put the phone/laptop down, experts made that.

Lies were told on all sides sadly.
This is the big lie, a claim that all sides are equally corrupt in this. It simply isn't true. Only one side cheated the system, only one side were found guilty, and only one side chose to promise things that were undeliverable. Don't perpetuate the lie it makes you as bad as those politicians.

People can never come together if they are dogmatic in their view and display hatred and anger at those they hope to change the views of.
So stop it then, look at your side with honesty, they were beyond contempt stealing peoples data for targeted marketing, posting pictures of Syrain refugees to frighten people, lying about EU laws etc. Be honest with yourself, you can state that you hate the way vote leave corrupted democracy while still supporting the outcome of poor trade relations, international damage, and the handing of our laws to the Tories.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I don't think the country is split. Outside of this board I have never heard Brexit discussed.

The £ is doing Ok

Housing through the roof.

I can buy Broccoli.

Just had a message reminding of the Hotel in Tenerife we use asking if we will be be back in November.

Every time Jam comes up with the line 'but he got Brexit won' it reminds ex Labour voters he did.

Where I work there are Poles, Rumanians, Greeks. They are not going home.
This is what makes me said. It's the ignorance of the images of brexit that gets me. Oh, there can't be a problem with brexit because I'm going on holiday to the EU. Ignorance seems to be the key weapon of the brexiteer now the lying has been proven
 
"I for one will not just accept it. Appreciate we ain't rejoining in next 10 years but after that I think the weight of numbers of young, progressive people will eventually get us back in there"

My personal opinion, and shared by others, is that that the EU in its current form will not even exist in 10 years. The world is a vastly different place than it was when it was formed (pre Internet), and a lot smaller. I think the UK will have a dam fine start on the union when it eventually fractures...and it will.
 

bear66

Well-known member
This is what makes me said. It's the ignorance of the images of brexit that gets me. Oh, there can't be a problem with brexit because I'm going on holiday to the EU. Ignorance seems to be the key weapon of the brexiteer now the lying has been proven
Anyone who has bought a European or Asian car or other technology in the past 5 years should have noticed how expensive they are compared with what you'd expect with inflation.
 

Same_as_before

Well-known member
This is what makes me said. It's the ignorance of the images of brexit that gets me. Oh, there can't be a problem with brexit because I'm going on holiday to the EU. Ignorance seems to be the key weapon of the brexiteer now the lying has been proven
I have a Tory telling me I am ignorant and a liar enough times for me to give up on here. I even attached the proof on a point once he said so what I am still a liar.
 
I have a Tory telling me I am ignorant and a liar enough times for me to give up on here. I even attached the proof on a point once he said so what I am still a liar.
I am waiting for him to call me ignorant, a liar and thick. I might have a little surprise for him when I tap him on the shoulder and ask him to say it to my face,
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I have a Tory telling me I am ignorant and a liar enough times for me to give up on here. I even attached the proof on a point once he said so what I am still a liar.
Ignorance is exactly what your previous post is based on. It's nothing personal. if you get offended by being called ignorant don't post something that is wilfully ignorant of the situation. You must have known that saying "brexit if fine because I can go to Tenerife" the response you would get
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I am waiting for him to call me ignorant, a liar and thick. I might have a little surprise for him when I tap him on the shoulder and ask him to say it to my face,
Threats on the internet. You may will be all those things you describe. You're certainly classy! Did you ever look back at a post and cringe?
 

Laughing

Well-known member
I don't really agree, there is accountability required for decisions, the lag effects need to be measured, and the overall outcomes understood. Without that, nothing can be learned. What we have learned is that a huge amount of disinformation formed the brexit campaign and this post highlighted that it has perpetuated. If you don't want to learn from events, and you don't want to have a fairer, more truthful society, then that's your personal call.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that Boromart, the electorate were given a free choice, they are not accountable if the government manipulates or lies to them. They have every right to expect open honesty from out parliament. For that reason I don't believe the electorate are accountable any more than ST is accountable for brexit or a tory voter is accountable for the ridiculous rough riding over our nations laws.

The government are accountable for their actions alone.

I know you and others don't agree and thats fine, but I don't buy that otherwise anyone who voted tory would be culpable for 10's of thousands of deaths.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
"I for one will not just accept it. Appreciate we ain't rejoining in next 10 years but after that I think the weight of numbers of young, progressive people will eventually get us back in there"

My personal opinion, and shared by others, is that that the EU in its current form will not even exist in 10 years. The world is a vastly different place than it was when it was formed (pre Internet), and a lot smaller. I think the UK will have a dam fine start on the union when it eventually fractures...and it will.
interesting concept, not sure I agree, it has been a success, the worlds most effective and efficient trading block. Why would small countries go back to individuality and lose their competitive advantage in a global market? On pure economies of scale it has benefits that can never be regained once you have left. We have heard of the impending implosion of the EU for decades and it hasn't happened, I'm not convinced it will happen in the next 10
 
Threats on the internet. You may will be all those things you describe. You're certainly classy! Did you ever look back at a post and cringe?
Coming from the guy who voted Tory and still rants on about his hatred of Brexiteers. Classy fella. I am sure we can discuss it over a beer sometime
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
We'll have to agree to disagree on that Boromart, the electorate were given a free choice, they are not accountable if the government manipulates or lies to them.
I think you misunderstood me. Yes they had a free choice, but it was a tainted choice from the vote leave campaign for many reasons. That's before you even get into the efficacy of a referendum based on one known condition vs all potential alternatives as a binary choice. But as you said there should have been a confirmatory referendum to validate that afterwards.

It's the politicians that should be accountable, more so than the people. If people are manipulated through lies, it's the liars that need to be held to account.....however and here's what this thread is really about, until those people manipulated by lies are prepared to look at themselves honestly and admit it, then they are guilty of not holding politicians to account. You have done the right thing by saying that you were sold a lie about staying in the single market, you've done your bit, most leave voters don't seem to have been that honest.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Coming from the guy who voted Tory and still rants on about his hatred of Brexiteers. Classy fella. I am sure we can discuss it over a beer sometime
Correct, I do hate brexiters. well the ones who are still brexiters, the ones who still perpetrate the lies. It's pathetic.

I look forward to you turning up and threatening me. That's creepy stalker territory that, but I guess that's not the worst of your psychological problems.
 
I wont threaten you. I just do not like keyboard loud mouths, who do not hold back calling people thick, ignorant, liars etc, but would do no such thing if sat in front of the same person.

You now say I have psychological problems?
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I wont threaten you. I just do not like keyboard loud mouths, who do not hold back calling people thick, ignorant, liars etc, but would do no such thing if sat in front of the same person.
You very first response to me was a threat. I have no problem calling a brexiter to their face what I do on here. I have a very limited tolerance of anyone who lies or is ignorant.
 

Soutra

Well-known member
Everyone from 65-72ish were taught both systems. There is absolutely no way that we will return to imperial, anyone under the age of 40 hasn't been taught it.

We use miles and drink pints, those two are culturally embedded and will stay, but people are pretty comfortable with metres and centimetres more than inches and yards. Just asked my 18 and 15 year olds and they don't have a clue what a yard is, daughter doesn't knows how many inches in a foot but knows her height in feet and inches because of me measuring her. Neither know how many pounds in a stone. These are A**students.

Imperial weights, they will not be re-accepted.


That is your personal perception, and I am of the age where both were taught fairly equally and I can visualise a foot and a metre equally. Imperial isn't better for that, it's just different. The benefit is the concept of decimilised measurements, they are far simpler to use than imperial. Sorry, but it ain't coming back in measurement or weights
People of 72 certainly were not taught metric systems. I doubt anyone in their 60s was either.

Your kids may be learning in metric units, but when they set foot into the world on their own, they'll come face to face with Imperial units every day. They are just embedded into British life, and it won't change.

Metric weights equivalent to Imperial exist all the time - I see 454 gram packs of stuff every time I shop. The thing about Imperial measurements is that they are useful. A pound of steak is just right for two, but ½ kilo is too much. You can pace out 100 yards, but not really 100 metres without looking like the Ministry of Silly Walks guy.

Now that the Brexit thing is over, I really expect we'll go back to using more Imperial measurements, although metric units will still be with us.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
People of 72 certainly were not taught metric systems. I doubt anyone in their 60s was either.
1965-1972ish (ie people at school in those years), which means if you are 66, you were 10 when they started to introduce and teach.

Everything has metric, some things have imperial. That's the way it is, they won't use imperial because there is no need to when the metric is available.

Imperial is a superior system, because it's decimal. It's more effective and more efficient, it's easier to write software to use it, there are less calculations required in our heads to use it. It's more accurate at smaller scale, People don't want to think of a 1/16th of an inch and make calculations on that, when they can use 2mm and make decimal calculations.

Arguing that a pound of steak is just right for two is nonsense, because somethings will work better with one measurement than the other, and that will always be the case. What is more important is how easy it is to use in calculations, and that is undoubtedly metric. Most of the world is metric for a reason.

The metric system is a true system where there is a relationship between the forms of measurement, 1ml of water weighs 1 gram, and is one cubic cm in size. This makes maths far easier than imperial. Imperial is a set of arbitrary unrelated measures, that just have no relative correlations.

Inches - Feet - Yards - Miles, these all have arbitrary relationships to each other (12" per foot, 3Ft per yard, 1,760Yds per mile), let alone absolutely no relationship to measures of liquid or area. It's a collection of unrelated systems of limited capability, poor efficiency and moderate daily effectiveness.
 
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coluka

Well-known member
Ignorance seems to be the key weapon of the brexiteer now the lying has been proven
Ignorance is a key accusation used by some entrenched remainers. Most of the entrenched ones group every brexit voter together as being ignorant, stupid or the most laughable one, brainwashed. Absolutely lies were told by team brexit, i knew that and factored them in, i know others did too, just like lies were told by team remain………. house prices crashing on brexit, rampant inflation, dramatic fall in the Pound, immediate tax rises and spending cuts, bare shelves etc they were attempts to cause fear. People do not like it when people try to use scare tactics, those alone would have made some rebel in less well off communities.

If we ever rejoin it will be because of democracy, a peoples vote whether by referendum or general election mandate. I have no issue with that should it happen. If whats on offer is better than we have I would happily vote for it. However, if current remainers want to get to that stage, they need to channel their inner anger away from those voting brexit into positive persuasion via their local leaders and wider social contacts. Instead of belittling sections of society, try to highlight the journey for them and why their lives will be more enriched if they were to join with your thinking. Whether the EU will still exist in years to come, I am not so sure, I doubt it will have the level of membership it has today.
 
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