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JM14 said:
That’s just racing unfortunately, it’s not breaking any rules the fact they get better performance from a new engine. Strange that anyone would suggest that was cheating
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I feel it's cheating as it's going against the spirit of the rules rather than the rules themselves. The rules were brought in to curb the prodigious spending of the teams and to make the sport more sustainable. I think all teams should be made to run the 3 allotted engine packages to destruction before they get further assets. If finances allowed all teams would changing engines every weekend probably. When was the last time you saw an engine blow up during a race. It's that sort of unpredictability I miss in today's racing
 
Spraggons Den said:
I feel it's cheating as it's going against the spirit of the rules rather than the rules themselves. The rules were brought in to curb the prodigious spending of the teams and to make the sport more sustainable. I think all teams should be made to run the 3 allotted engine packages to destruction before they get further assets. If finances allowed all teams would changing engines every weekend probably. When was the last time you saw an engine blow up during a race. It's that sort of unpredictability I miss in today's racing
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But it’s not cheating, the rules a clearly state new engines are allowed if a penalty is taken, which almost every driver on the grid has. Your just not happy the driver you want to win hasn’t benefited as much as another one which is a slightly ridiculous argument.
Hamilton did loose an engine in Holland, that’s why he had to take another
 
Spraggons Den said:
Yes I know but like I said the Honda engine doesn't respond as well to being turned up to the max (no pun intended) as the Mercedes one does. So its not as much of a benefit to Red Bull as it is to the Mercedes team.
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Well they should have developed a better engine then.

Seems a strange argument to say Hamilton has a new engine when Max had one too
 
Spraggons Den said:
I feel it's cheating as it's going against the spirit of the rules rather than the rules themselves. The rules were brought in to curb the prodigious spending of the teams and to make the sport more sustainable. I think all teams should be made to run the 3 allotted engine packages to destruction before they get further assets. If finances allowed all teams would changing engines every weekend probably. When was the last time you saw an engine blow up during a race. It's that sort of unpredictability I miss in today's racing
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Also you do realise in the days when engines were blowing up all the time the HERE changed every week? I was listening to a beyond the grid where they talked about shipping seven engines out to Japan for a single race weekend. It seems odd and biased to suggest one team is cheating when at least 4 teams I know of have taken engine penalties this year,
 
JM14 said:
You realise Max also took a new engine in Russia? As well as almost every other team at some point this season?
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I'm sure he does. He kind of has a point about engine penalties though. The likes of Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull and Alpine can afford more engine replacements per season than say Haas or Williams. Those four teams will also be able to soak up a grid place penalty whereas the grid place penalties for the likes of Haas are pointless as they've started every race this season for example at the back of the grid.

The engine rules do need a shakeup. How? No idea.
 
There have always been haves and Have-nots in F1. The demand for parity with engine changes is a bit too late for this season, as the rules were agreed and signed off by all the teams a long time ago, including the strangely inconsistent engine change penalty rules. If it's in the rules, it cannot be cheating. The engine change by Mercedes is about the only thing that Red Bull have not whinged about (so far)

No doubt there will be more controversies to come, both RBR and Mercedes rear wings have been subject to much speculation for example.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Well your only allowed 3 engine packages for the season. When you take a 4th then you get a big grid penalty. After that though for the 5th and subsequent engine packages or ICE its only a 5 place penalty for each one. Hamilton has already had 5 engines (for alleged reliability issues) and so if he takes a 6th or even a 7th with only 2 races to go then the engine instead of having to last for 7 or 8 racing weekends only has to last for the one (or two). This means that the electronics in the engine can be set for maximum power and not maximum reliability. As these are the rules then its not exactly cheating but it is manoeuvring the rules to suit you race needs. Also it does go against the spirit of the rules if not exactly in breach of them. With the engine turned up the Mercedes is a beast and extremely fast in a straight line. Red Bulls Honda engine doesn't respond as well to the electronics being turned up so its unlikely to see Max getting a similar boost. Hence my prediction of Lewis winning the championship.
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So, to be clear, it's not cheating even though you said it was originally?
 
JM14 said:
But it’s not cheating, the rules a clearly state new engines are allowed if a penalty is taken, which almost every driver on the grid has. Your just not happy the driver you want to win hasn’t benefited as much as another one which is a slightly ridiculous argument.
Hamilton did loose an engine in Holland, that’s why he had to take another
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Yes engines over and above the allotted 3 packages are allowed but go with a penalty. I just feel the penalty isn't enough of a deterrent to prevent the teams taking more engines than necessary. You are right though in that I don't want to see Lewis win. But I also dont want to see Max win either. As a Williams fan (and I have been for over 40 years now) I would much rather see George or Nick winning. But unfortunately they have been racing at the other end of the grid. Hopefully next year we will carry on moving forward and although we lose George (good luck to him) we are gaining Alex Albon and I hope he settles in well with Nick.
 
It will also be interesting to see how many serviceable engines each of the drivers has at the end of the year. If all goes to the spirit of the rules on engine packages they should all be down to 1 at most. Any more than that the they will have definitely taken more engines than was necessary.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Yes engines over and above the allotted 3 packages are allowed but go with a penalty. I just feel the penalty isn't enough of a deterrent to prevent the teams taking more engines than necessary. You are right though in that I don't want to see Lewis win. But I also dont want to see Max win either. As a Williams fan (and I have been for over 40 years now) I would much rather see George or Nick winning. But unfortunately they have been racing at the other end of the grid. Hopefully next year we will carry on moving forward and although we lose George (good luck to him) we are gaining Alex Albon and I hope he settles in well with Nick.
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Yes but to make it clear, Mercedes are in no way cheating by taking extra engines as you initially suggested
 
Randy said:
I'm sure he does. He kind of has a point about engine penalties though. The likes of Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull and Alpine can afford more engine replacements per season than say Haas or Williams. Those four teams will also be able to soak up a grid place penalty whereas the grid place penalties for the likes of Haas are pointless as they've started every race this season for example at the back of the grid.

The engine rules do need a shakeup. How? No idea.
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True, but you also want to promote good racing. Limiting extra engines if needed wouldn’t work. Imagine the title being decided because one of their engines failed in the last race from overuse but they couldn’t replace it

Just a fact of any sport that some teams have better resources than others
 
Spraggons Den said:
Well lets see if Lewis takes yet another ICE before the end of the season shall we
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There's two races left and Hamilton's got two engines in the pool, one of which has only been used once. Why on earth would Mercedes take on another grid penalty when Hamilton needs to win both races?

Some of your comments on this thread are bizarre.
 
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