Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
Smoking ban killed the pub for me. Suddenly they were filled with clean living ******* with their unsmelly clothes. This is a house of poison!
There are numbers to back up that the smoking ban isn't the cause. Pubs had seen a reduction in numbers for years before the ban, and the 20 year view doesn't show any long term change in numbers of licensed pubs from the smoking ban. The trend is almost identical after 2007 as before.I am not so sure about that mart. No numbers to back that up but seems anecdotally wrong. Pubs had to change their models and there weren't enough chefs around to go gastro pub. Also in lots of areas there was probably no interest in that model from customers.
I'll add one more thing to your list, Nano - the rise of Wetherspoons has been lethal for many smaller wet-led pubs.There are loads of things that have caused a decline.
> People drink less than they used to
> The change in licensing laws allowing places to stay open later so people don't go to pubs, they go to bars and they go out and start the night later
> Smoking ban
> Women working so more need for sharing home/parental responsibilities
> Drinking at home is cheaper
> People go out for food more so more restaurants means more competition
> Drink drive laws have been correctly tightened so you can't have a few after/during work and drive home
> People socialise less because we can communicate virtually
There aren't as many pubs now but it would be interesting to see a comparison of the number of places you can get a drink because every restaurant has a bar, hotels have a bar, every leisure activity has a bar etc
I agree that the smoking ban had little impact on the overall trend in pub numbers, but it had a disruptive effect at the time. Quite a few 'landlocked' pubs saw a sharp trade decline and a fair number of closures. Overall, it was both a redistribution of customers and a replacement of smokers with non-smokers, but little change in the trend. On a personal note, it gave me the incentive to finally quit smoking for good!There are numbers to back up that the smoking ban isn't the cause. Pubs had seen a reduction in numbers for years before the ban, and the 20 year view doesn't show any long term change in numbers of licensed pubs from the smoking ban. The trend is almost identical after 2007 as before.
The curve was downwards prior to and after the ban. There was a temporary blip of 2 years immediately after the ban where number of pubs reduced beyond the norm. BUT there was then an increase, the only increase in pub number in the last 20 years, and it was just 2 years after the smoking ban came in. This righted the trend lines. Ergo, the smoking ban is not in the slightest bit the cause for pub closures, it's about changing consumer patterns.
Total number of pubs in the UK 2020 | Statista
How many pubs are there in the UK? There were approximately 46,800 pubs operating in the United Kingdom in 2020.www.statista.com
awesomeOn a personal note, it gave me the incentive to finally quit smoking for good!
Cheers for that mart. Had a quick look, I do love visual aids. Anyway, can't do it now but I think we are gonna have a fight here. At first blush I think you might be wrong. I think you are saying after 2007 the numbers recovered to digest the smoking ban had no influence. What I would agree with is the decline has been going on for a long time.There are numbers to back up that the smoking ban isn't the cause. Pubs had seen a reduction in numbers for years before the ban, and the 20 year view doesn't show any long term change in numbers of licensed pubs from the smoking ban. The trend is almost identical after 2007 as before.
The curve was downwards prior to and after the ban. There was a temporary blip of 2 years immediately after the ban where number of pubs reduced beyond the norm. BUT there was then an increase, the only increase in pub number in the last 20 years, and it was just 2 years after the smoking ban came in. This righted the trend lines. Ergo, the smoking ban is not in the slightest bit the cause for pub closures, it's about changing consumer patterns.
Total number of pubs in the UK 2020 | Statista
How many pubs are there in the UK? There were approximately 46,800 pubs operating in the United Kingdom in 2020.www.statista.com
The trend before and after the ban was exactly the same.At first blush I think you might be wrong. I think you are saying after 2007 the numbers recovered to digest the smoking ban had no influence.
Yes, the impact on different sub-sectors of the industry will have been different, and for every local that suffered, a country pub increased trade. It levelled out within 3 years, back onto the continuous downward trend it's been on for 30 years.Bare in mind I said the smoking ban effected your local.
Or for every local that shut a chain opened in a center?The trend before and after the ban was exactly the same.
Yes there was an immediate impact, but there was a recovery also, back to the norm.
Yes, the impact on different sub-sectors of the industry will have been different, and for every local that suffered, a country pub increased trade. It levelled out within 3 years, back onto the continuous downward trend it's been on for 30 years.
Also correct.Those things had an effect Randy but pubs have been in decline for some time. The smoking ban didn't help your local
maybe, but chains is a separate issue to smoking bans.Or for every local that shut a chain opened in a center?
we don't owe pubs a living though, they have to cater for their market, and if they want food so be it.Also correct.
My point is we can't blame the decline of pubs just on the Tories.
The taxes on beers, ciders and spirits certainly doesn't help matters. I'd wager over 85% of pubs in this country now offer food as a way of getting punters in.
Nobody said they did.we don't owe pubs a living though, they have to cater for their market, and if they want food so be it.
Likewise for me.After many dozens of attempts to quit ! finally managed it 6 months before the ban came in!I agree that the smoking ban had little impact on the overall trend in pub numbers, but it had a disruptive effect at the time. Quite a few 'landlocked' pubs saw a sharp trade decline and a fair number of closures. Overall, it was both a redistribution of customers and a replacement of smokers with non-smokers, but little change in the trend. On a personal note, it gave me the incentive to finally quit smoking for good!
Maybe Mart, or maybe t here was a rise in chains as they filled the gap left by local boozers who shut. I was working late last night so haven't had a chance to look at this. I am not even sure there will be pub demographic data available.maybe, but chains is a separate issue to smoking bans.