Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
Smoking ban killed the pub for me. Suddenly they were filled with clean living ******* with their unsmelly clothes. This is a house of poison!
Pubs destroyed by Tories
- Thread starter Corcaigh_the_Cat
- Start date
BoroMart
Well-known member
There are numbers to back up that the smoking ban isn't the cause. Pubs had seen a reduction in numbers for years before the ban, and the 20 year view doesn't show any long term change in numbers of licensed pubs from the smoking ban. The trend is almost identical after 2007 as before.
The curve was downwards prior to and after the ban. There was a temporary blip of 2 years immediately after the ban where number of pubs reduced beyond the norm. BUT there was then an increase, the only increase in pub number in the last 20 years, and it was just 2 years after the smoking ban came in. This righted the trend lines. Ergo, the smoking ban is not in the slightest bit the cause for pub closures, it's about changing consumer patterns.
Total number of pubs in the UK 2020 | Statista
How many pubs are there in the UK? There were approximately 46,800 pubs operating in the United Kingdom in 2020.
www.statista.com
Obviously pubs have been in decline for 20-30 years now due to many reasons.
More recently, I think a lot of people definitely changed their habits during lockdown. People found other ways to socialise and other places to spend their money.
I used to love going to the pub in my late teens and right through my 20s. But now, at the age of 36, I probably enter a pub once a month for a few reasons.
I don't you can put down closure of pubs purely down to government policy. We are developing as a society where many people find other ways to fill their time other than just sitting in a pub. A lot more people out exercising these days. People tend to take more pride in their house and like to host gatherings at home. A lot of people save their money and travel more.
I love the pub. When I do go out with my mates and have a sesh, I love it. But I don't think it's bad that we as a nation are moving away from that as a sole place for socialising.
More recently, I think a lot of people definitely changed their habits during lockdown. People found other ways to socialise and other places to spend their money.
I used to love going to the pub in my late teens and right through my 20s. But now, at the age of 36, I probably enter a pub once a month for a few reasons.
I don't you can put down closure of pubs purely down to government policy. We are developing as a society where many people find other ways to fill their time other than just sitting in a pub. A lot more people out exercising these days. People tend to take more pride in their house and like to host gatherings at home. A lot of people save their money and travel more.
I love the pub. When I do go out with my mates and have a sesh, I love it. But I don't think it's bad that we as a nation are moving away from that as a sole place for socialising.
I'll add one more thing to your list, Nano - the rise of Wetherspoons has been lethal for many smaller wet-led pubs.
I agree that the smoking ban had little impact on the overall trend in pub numbers, but it had a disruptive effect at the time. Quite a few 'landlocked' pubs saw a sharp trade decline and a fair number of closures. Overall, it was both a redistribution of customers and a replacement of smokers with non-smokers, but little change in the trend. On a personal note, it gave me the incentive to finally quit smoking for good!There are numbers to back up that the smoking ban isn't the cause. Pubs had seen a reduction in numbers for years before the ban, and the 20 year view doesn't show any long term change in numbers of licensed pubs from the smoking ban. The trend is almost identical after 2007 as before.
The curve was downwards prior to and after the ban. There was a temporary blip of 2 years immediately after the ban where number of pubs reduced beyond the norm. BUT there was then an increase, the only increase in pub number in the last 20 years, and it was just 2 years after the smoking ban came in. This righted the trend lines. Ergo, the smoking ban is not in the slightest bit the cause for pub closures, it's about changing consumer patterns.
Total number of pubs in the UK 2020 | Statista
How many pubs are there in the UK? There were approximately 46,800 pubs operating in the United Kingdom in 2020.
BoroMart
Well-known member
awesome
Laughing
Well-known member
Cheers for that mart. Had a quick look, I do love visual aids. Anyway, can't do it now but I think we are gonna have a fight here. At first blush I think you might be wrong. I think you are saying after 2007 the numbers recovered to digest the smoking ban had no influence. What I would agree with is the decline has been going on for a long time.There are numbers to back up that the smoking ban isn't the cause. Pubs had seen a reduction in numbers for years before the ban, and the 20 year view doesn't show any long term change in numbers of licensed pubs from the smoking ban. The trend is almost identical after 2007 as before.
The curve was downwards prior to and after the ban. There was a temporary blip of 2 years immediately after the ban where number of pubs reduced beyond the norm. BUT there was then an increase, the only increase in pub number in the last 20 years, and it was just 2 years after the smoking ban came in. This righted the trend lines. Ergo, the smoking ban is not in the slightest bit the cause for pub closures, it's about changing consumer patterns.
Total number of pubs in the UK 2020 | Statista
How many pubs are there in the UK? There were approximately 46,800 pubs operating in the United Kingdom in 2020.
Bare in mind I said the smoking ban effected your local.
BoroMart
Well-known member
The trend before and after the ban was exactly the same.
Yes there was an immediate impact, but there was a recovery also, back to the norm.
Yes, the impact on different sub-sectors of the industry will have been different, and for every local that suffered, a country pub increased trade. It levelled out within 3 years, back onto the continuous downward trend it's been on for 30 years.
Laughing
Well-known member
Or for every local that shut a chain opened in a center?
Randy
Well-known member
Also correct.
My point is we can't blame the decline of pubs just on the Tories.
The taxes on beers, ciders and spirits certainly doesn't help matters. I'd wager over 85% of pubs in this country now offer food as a way of getting punters in.
BoroMart
Well-known member
maybe, but chains is a separate issue to smoking bans.
BoroMart
Well-known member
we don't owe pubs a living though, they have to cater for their market, and if they want food so be it.
Randy
Well-known member
Nobody said they did.
I'm saying the taxes on beers etc are playing their part in the decline if pure wet led establishments. Also brewery rents are a concern too. Luckily the new place I work at is a freehold so we've got a bit of freedom with regards to alcohol choices.
sweet_left_foot
Well-known member
The Miner's Arms
The General Practioner
The Queen's Head
The Shipbuilder
The Union Arms
The General Practioner
The Queen's Head
The Shipbuilder
The Union Arms
locomansimon
Well-known member
There's been a marked rise in micro pubs
gizboro68
Active member
Likewise for me.After many dozens of attempts to quit ! finally managed it 6 months before the ban came in!
If you own a pub you can still make money, depending on the pub and you ISP but, in my experience from being a tied landlord/Manager who ran/managed pubs 20 years ago, it is now hard to make a decent living as the breweries sussed out the food offer and ruined that and also installed electronic tills. Soon as they did, best to get out of that game. Now even big chains are struggling, despite screwing down every possible penny due to taxes and energy requirement.
Laughing
Well-known member
Maybe Mart, or maybe t here was a rise in chains as they filled the gap left by local boozers who shut. I was working late last night so haven't had a chance to look at this. I am not even sure there will be pub demographic data available.
As John saays above, energy prices may well send more of them to the wall. It's a shame, I like a proper pub. We are lucky enough in our village to have 3 pubs and a social club. Having said that 10 years ago we had 7 pubs.