Promotion and The Prem

B

Boro_Interlinked

Well-known member
So, last seasons promo sides Leicester, Ipswich & Southampton all played 6 games each now. That's 18 in total , and err.. zero wins. Ipswich perhaps doing the better as they have played 4 of the top 6 but Southampton have played none of the top 6 and got 1 point return. I think similar things happened at the start of last season too. So if we do go up, whats the plan ? Can you see Gibbo doing a +140m splurge just to try to stay up. Also that usually means you change your entire team, or maybe 2, max 3 outfield players from promo side make the new team, I have no idea what the answer is or even if there is one. I'll just try to enjoy this championship journey and then worry about it in May 🤷‍♂️
 
You've got to spend big to give yourself a chance. £80m+ minimum or £100m+ to give yourself a better chance. That's just how it is now.
I think Ipswich have gone the right way. They've spent big, circa £120m, but they've spent on players that they will be able to retain for a season if they are relegated IMO. They would likely bounce straight back up.
If they do survive they will have a good platform to build on next season as well.

£100m is eye watering and obviously a scary number and that is exactly the reason we need a parachute payment system. I think the important thing is, that you buy players that:

A) you could hopefully retain for at least 1 season if relegated to help you get promoted
B) have a good chance of retaining their value.

Top champo players generally will fit this profile. If they are English, even better.
 
Last edited:
I like what Ipswich have done. They have used the money to give them a chance of getting promotion next season. They've bought some very good championship players rather than buying players that will be gone in the summer after they get relegated.

I'm a bit surprised by Southampton because they were a recently relegated side so already had some good PL level players. Their style of football is beyond their capability against better PL players. Leicester obviously have had a change of manager but they also had a squad that contained some good PL level players.

As for us. I don't think we have many PL level players so I would expect if we were to be promoted to be more like Ipswich and aim to become a yo-yo club. It would be a pretty miserable season in the PL but as long as we aren't expecting too much we can still enjoy it and I'm sure there will be some highlights. Last time we tried the big spending, high profile player route and it didn't work. I think we'd be more sensible in our approach with our recruitment team these days.
 
It's not necessarily the amount we spend, it has to be that the players we invest in are either A) sold on at a profit if we go down, or, B) Are nailed on top level championship performers that we can sustainably afford.

I think Ipswich have done this well with Clarke and Delap in particular.

There needs to be very few loans or free/cheap signings on large wages that we end up releasing or taking huge losses on.

Our signings when we went up last time were largely poor quality wise, and the wrong profile. Negredo for example was a great player, but an expensive loan that would be see no return.
 
Leicester and Southampton were long established Premier League sides that bounced back at the first time of asking.

Their struggles are down to themselves rather than anything else.
 
Nano said:
I like what Ipswich have done. They have used the money to give them a chance of getting promotion next season. They've bought some very good championship players rather than buying players that will be gone in the summer after they get relegated.

I'm a bit surprised by Southampton because they were a recently relegated side so already had some good PL level players. Their style of football is beyond their capability against better PL players. Leicester obviously have had a change of manager but they also had a squad that contained some good PL level players.

As for us. I don't think we have many PL level players so I would expect if we were to be promoted to be more like Ipswich and aim to become a yo-yo club. It would be a pretty miserable season in the PL but as long as we aren't expecting too much we can still enjoy it and I'm sure there will be some highlights. Last time we tried the big spending, high profile player route and it didn't work. I think we'd be more sensible in our approach with our recruitment team these days.
Click to expand...
You raise a good point about the style of football. I still have nightmares about our game at Stamford Bridge last season and it felt like we just were no where near good enough to try and play our usual way against that type of opposition. Now, I know we had a ton of injuries and we also just didn’t play at all well that night, but still it got me thinking that if we were to go up then we would need to adapt or at least have a plan B against some of the elite sides.

Anyway, something to worry about if and when we get promoted. I actually quite enjoy the championship to be honest with you!
 
The performance of promoted teams is mixed. Although all three came down last season the previous season all three, Notts Forest, Bournemouth and Fulham stayed up and retained their position last season. Arguably each of last season’s teams had reasons for their performance. Luton hardly spent much saving most of their money for their new stadium. Sheffield United’s owner is trying to sell the club and also spent very little. Burnley have financial difficulties and their tactic was arguably to buy players with a view to immediate promotion afterwards.
If you spend wisely there is hope.
We have imho several Premier players already, Dieng, van den Berg, Hackney, Morris and McGree with several good squad players, Latte Lath and Azaz for example. Good recruiting is very likely with our current team.
 
The gap between the Champ an the Prem is huge. We have seen teams win the Champ at a canter only to look hopelessly out of their depth in the Prem the following season.

Sometimes when I watch one of the low to mid table prem sides play, I think that they don't look that much better than teams at our level. And in a one-off cup game we could hold our own. But week in and week out it is different. And then add in a few absolute hidings from the better teams, and the manager is all of a sudden under pressure, the players are under pressure and the fans are getting restless , and rumours start about managers getting sacked. The pressure tells. What happened to Karanka is a perfect example of this.

I like our current recruitment drive. If we do go up I am hoping that some of our young players will be able to step up. But certainly not all of them will be good enough and heavy investment would be needed to even stand a chance of survival. It's not impossible, just very very difficult.
 
  • Like
Reactions: B_G
It's pretty miserable losing most weeks and hoping to scrape enough wins and draws to have a chance of staying up. That's why I'm never too gutted when we fall short.

That said, if we do go up I will be really looking forward to seeing what signings Scott and our recruitment team come up with given a bigger budget to play with.
 
I think Luton made the best fist of staying up last season, with the likes of Barkley and Townsend being most influential.

I also recall the one time we established ourselves in the PL, we did it on the back of signing Coops, Pally, Townsend, Gordon and Deane.

I think PL experience is crucial, even if it's a case of signing a few veterans for a couple of years at the end of their careers. I don't think we'll be able to attract PL dead certs in their prime, so we'll probably have to look at veterans to get players with a track record of doing it consistently in the top flight.
 
This is our season otherwise another major rebuild but on the back of some very healthy transfer fees
 
Boro_Interlinked said:
So, last seasons promo sides Leicester, Ipswich & Southampton all played 6 games each now. That's 18 in total , and err.. zero wins. Ipswich perhaps doing the better as they have played 4 of the top 6 but Southampton have played none of the top 6 and got 1 point return. I think similar things happened at the start of last season too. So if we do go up, whats the plan ? Can you see Gibbo doing a +140m splurge just to try to stay up. Also that usually means you change your entire team, or maybe 2, max 3 outfield players from promo side make the new team, I have no idea what the answer is or even if there is one. I'll just try to enjoy this championship journey and then worry about it in May 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
He cant because if it fails he will be foul of financial rules strangely if it works be will be ok
 
It's a tough one.
For a fan , challenging at the top of the championship is a lot more fun than struggling near the bottom of the prem.
The second half our last season in the prem was brutal .
 
One of the worst things about football these days - and there are many to pick from - is the lack of genuine competition. Prime example of that is the ever increasing gap between the Prem and the Champo. It’s just so glaring now that promoted teams seem to start from a ‘likely to go back down position’. Wasn’t too long ago that promoted teams could have a decent crack, particularly in the first season when they seemed to ‘play up’. Those days seem to be gone. If we went up, you could feasibly talk about needing to significantly strengthen in every single position.
 
I think our plan is more akin to Brentford or Brighton. We are trying to forge an identity where we have continuation in the way we play, players we sign (and sell) and the way we operate as a club. If it takes a few more years then so be it, but once we do get up we want to stay there.
 
Frozen Horse said:
I think Luton made the best fist of staying up last season, with the likes of Barkley and Townsend being most influential.

I also recall the one time we established ourselves in the PL, we did it on the back of signing Coops, Pally, Townsend, Gordon and Deane.

I think PL experience is crucial, even if it's a case of signing a few veterans for a couple of years at the end of their careers. I don't think we'll be able to attract PL dead certs in their prime, so we'll probably have to look at veterans to get players with a track record of doing it consistently in the top flight.
Click to expand...
Luton only managed 26 points. They did better than the other two but they were still really poor. They seemed like they were in touch but that's because the other teams like Everton and Forest had points deductions. Forest finished 10 points and 15GD better than them once you exclude their 4 point deduction. With the points deduction then 32 points broke the record for lowest points total to survive relegation in the PL and they were still 6 points from danger. All 3 promoted teams were miles away from safety last season.

It's a completely different league to the one we got promoted to in 98. We could compete financially with PL teams when we came up from the championship. It's not possible now. You get about £100m when you get promoted but the average value of a PL player is £20m so it takes about £200m to buy a first XI good enough to compete. It's hard to do and easy to get wrong.
 
Any club coming up from the Championship is competing against the 2 teams that came up with them and then usually currently 1 or 2 premier league teams to stay up. I don't think there is much difference in 1st 11's of top 6 championship teams and bottom 6 championship teams, but there is a massive difference in quality of 25 man squads, with 5 subs that makes such a big difference. Biggest difference is the ability to score goals, if you have a 1st choice striker who can score 15 goals and a 2nd choice who can grab 10, you've got a chance. Style of play comes in to it, Southampton like Burnley last season, will go down just by not being pragmatic in games, being realistic and trying to grab a 1-0 win or a point here or there is key, you prob only need 32pts to stay up, 8 wins, 8 draws will be enough
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top