Priti Patel!!

Just how would people from Teesside be able to afford to live in London, for instance. Or to afford to commute to do the thousands of jobs filled there by foreign workers ,living maybe short term and often in very poor conditions

They won't as I have already stated. There is no policy or proposal for such measures. It's simply scaremongering stating that people from Teesside are going to have to go to London to work, if they want to they can. They don't have to
 
Employers often use numerous channels for recruitment, including word of mouth, agencies and other paid for recruitment services, their own website and social media. Most distinctively, paid for recruitment services (including agencies) were used by 59 per cent of recruiting employers (15 percentage points more than across all sectors). Recruitment and employment of non-UK EU nationals is more common in the sector than average. Drivers of non-compliance Compliance with labour regulations is variable across the sector. While there are many ‘good’ employers and agencies, there are also some who pay less attention to employment rights legislation. There is a spectrum of non-compliance, ranging from advanced fee fraud to employers that genuinely do not realise they are in breach of legislation. Drivers of non-compliance with employment rights legislation include: long supply chains that make it difficult for workers to know who they are engaging with; widespread use of agencies and umbrella companies including some who do not respect relevant legislation; use of non-standard contracts; business pressures driven by large retailers forcing down costs; and workers’ lack of understanding of their legal status/rights. Worker experiences of employment breaches Warehousing workers reported a variety of employment rights breaches. There were three key areas where common breaches occurred: • Breaks – Being told or asked not to take breaks tended to occur when there was a high level of work to get through and targets were not being met. Workers on less secure contracts were more likely to feel pressured to work through their breaks and not challenge employers. • Pay – Common issues around pay involved either not being paid for all the hours worked or not being paid on time. Overall, not being paid for the total number of hours worked was slightly more common than not being paid on time. Both instances were generally seen to be due to administrative errors; however, some occasions may have been intentional noncompliance by the employer. • Health and Safety – Lack of appropriate equipment and space to conduct work safely was noted by workers. Healthy and safety concerns were reported by both junior and senior members of staff. How has the UK Warehousing sector been affected by the fissuring of the worker-employer relationship in the last 10 years? 6023 | Controlled | Page 6 of 65 The following breaches were less common: • Contract – Not being given a written contract was experienced by a small proportion of workers. • Harassment – Predominantly verbal harassment was reported by some more junior members of staff. • National Minimum Wage (NMW) / National Living Wage (NLW) – Being paid below NMW / NLW was not experienced by any of the workers that we spoke to, but some workers did believe that this occurred in the industry and non-UK workers were the most at risk. Awareness of rights and raising issues Stakeholders felt that workers generally had limited awareness of both employment rights and routes for raising breaches. They felt that workers had the highest level of awareness of National Minimum Wage/ National Living Wage entitlement. Awareness of rights around employment conditions such as holiday pay, sick pay, paid overtime, or breaks, was felt to be more limited. Generally, stakeholders believed that workers lacked awareness of most of the support agencies that they could turn to for assistance or to report incidents. Conversely, workers generally felt that they were reasonably aware of their rights in the workplace. However, when prompted on a variety of possible breaches, workers did not seem to have a high level of knowledge of their rights which would support this confidence. When workers had experienced breaches, they tended to raise these internally with their employer. They tended to speak to managers or supervisors in the first instance. None of the warehouse workers had turned to external agencies for assistance. This was predominantly due to the fact that they lacked awareness of the agencies that they could turn to for support or guidance. Workers were prompted on a range of available support organisations. Workers recognised the names of Citizens Advice (CA), Unite the Union, and the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service (ACAS). HMRC was also frequently recognised, but not within the context of the NMW team. Workers tended rather to recognise that HMRC were the Government department that dealt with (income) tax. Workers had limited awareness of the Modern Slavery Helpline, Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers (USDAW), Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority (GLAA) and Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate (EASI). Stakeholders agreed that more could be done to improve workers’ awareness of their rights.
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They won't as I have already stated. There is no policy or proposal for such measures. It's simply scaremongering stating that people from Teesside are going to have to go to London to work, if they want to they can. They don't have to

If that is true then what on Earth was Patel’s point?

She was asked how the British economy will fill the jobs currently undertaken by immigrants, if we are going to have a stricter immigration policy. She replied that we have millions of economically inactive people in the country who will fill the gap.

However, as has been pointed out, most of those people will live in other regions from where the demand arises. If she’s not suggesting ‘forcing’ them to move for employment reasons, then we return to the original question - how will we fill the jobs currently undertaken by immigrants?
 
She was asked how the British economy will fill the jobs currently undertaken by immigrants, if we are going to have a stricter immigration policy. She replied that we have millions of economically inactive people in the country who will fill the gap.

However, as has been pointed out, most of those people will live in other regions from where the demand arises. If she’s not suggesting ‘forcing’ them to move for employment reasons, then we return to the original question - how will we fill the jobs currently undertaken by immigrants

I don't exactly know what her point is. The simple point of economically inactive people can fill the gap is true to an extent. You would need a breakdown of regions of economically inactive people vs the level of low skilled immigration work in said region to give you a better picture though.

To suggest all these jobs are in London and people are going to be faced with moving or lose their benefits is wrong and simple scaremongering. There is no evidence of that what so ever and that simply is a fact
 
As 88% of the economically inactive are not available for work, how does anyone propose how the remaining 12% can fill all these jobs?
Breakdown
 
A large portion of the economically inactive on Teesside have serious addiction and mental health issues.

Best of luck to the elderly, dementia sufferers and Sandwich and other food production factories in 10 months time.
 
To suggest all these jobs are in London and people are going to be faced with moving or lose their benefits is wrong and simple scaremongering. There is no evidence of that what so ever and that simply is a fac

But we do know that most jobs growth, particularly in the service and construction industries which are heavily reliant on immigrant labour, tends to occur in cities and regions with above average economic growth. We also know that regions with below average economic growth tend to have higher levels of economic inactivity.

So we know, without over analysing things, that there is a geographical mismatch between the demand for labour and the potential supply of labour within the UK. So again, if Patel is not implying a policy of ‘incentivising’ those people to move, how we will fill the jobs currently undertaken by immigrants?
 
What is the point of someone being forced to take a job that they are clearly unsuitable for, when a week or a month later they will be sacked due to attitude or inability to do the job and be back where they started from? How much would this have cost an employer? Unless things have changed I can give examples of when I was out of work. I had to lie to prospective employers, stating that I was working when I wasn't. Many employers would not entertain an application from an unemployed person when employed people are applying for the same job. I know this from experience.
I have been asked "What is the lowest wage you will work for."
I have been turned down because people more local to the company have applied even though I was told I was the best candidate. Employers were scared that if a job closer to home arose I would leave them.
On jobs currently being carried out by foreign labour. Priti Patels idea is that firms could train their workforce up once the foreigners had left. However, firms might come to the conclusion that it may be cheaper to relocate to where the skilled labour is rather than incur the cost of training locals up. That skilled labour may be in Poland, France etc. It may even open up more markets for them.
Just be careful what you wish for, because you might get it, as the old saying goes.
 
But we do know that most jobs growth, particularly in the service and construction industries which are heavily reliant on immigrant labour, tends to occur in cities and regions with above average economic growth. We also know that regions with below average economic growth tend to have higher levels of economic inactivity.

So we know, without over analysing things, that there is a geographical mismatch between the demand for labour and the potential supply of labour within the UK. So again, if Patel is not implying a policy of ‘incentivising’ those people to move, how we will fill the jobs currently undertaken by immigrants?

I don’t know how it will work. I understand where you are coming from my point is that at this moment in time no policy exists that comes close to suggesting people will be told to move to take up work like some are stating
 
She just carries hate baggage around like most down at heel Tory misfits do. Shes a token Tory and very spiteful. Could on that big fat asre to clean the windows though.:cool:
 
Not at all. She is just a dog whistle politician that has not thought the policy through, which is slightly worrying as she will be the Minister responsible for implementing it. It is all very well and good to state that this badly thought through policy will solve the issue of economic activity, but it quite clearly wont if she does not understand why those people are ' economically inactive' in the first place. Do you believe that swathes of people who are carers, or disabled or with families could suddenly move and take up jobs they are physically or geographically incapable of taking?
I've since read about it and a miniscule amount of the economically inactive are long term unemployed admittedly but I'm from the generation that saw unemployment as being humiliating. Too many people nowadays see it as a career choice.
 
What is the point of someone being forced to take a job that they are clearly unsuitable for, when a week or a month later they will be sacked due to attitude or inability to do the job and be back where they started from? How much would this have cost an employer? Unless things have changed I can give examples of when I was out of work. I had to lie to prospective employers, stating that I was working when I wasn't. Many employers would not entertain an application from an unemployed person when employed people are applying for the same job. I know this from experience.
I have been asked "What is the lowest wage you will work for."
I have been turned down because people more local to the company have applied even though I was told I was the best candidate. Employers were scared that if a job closer to home arose I would leave them.
On jobs currently being carried out by foreign labour. Priti Patels idea is that firms could train their workforce up once the foreigners had left. However, firms might come to the conclusion that it may be cheaper to relocate to where the skilled labour is rather than incur the cost of training locals up. That skilled labour may be in Poland, France etc. It may even open up more markets for them.
Just be careful what you wish for, because you might get it, as the old saying goes.
A right wing Tory might say that if they don't want to try they shouldn't get benefits. Not that I'm a right wing Tory.
 
I don’t know how it will work. I understand where you are coming from my point is that at this moment in time no policy exists that comes close to suggesting people will be told to move to take up work like some are stating

I’m not having a go at you Cooper, by the way, so apologies if it’s coming across like I am.

I just think that Priti Patel is an example of the worst kind of politician. She basically decided to sound tough on both immigration and worklessness, without a moment’s thought to the practicalities of what she was suggesting.

It plays into the idea that there are simple solutions to complex problems, which is becoming far too prevalent in our political discourse these days.
 
To me the majority of the economically inactive are people who are not available to work through choice, housewives, early retired etc if as Patel seems to be suggesting they do not fit into that category they should be classed as unemployed and those figures would then reflect more accurately the state of the nation when it comes to those who are the actual unemployed.
 
Just how would people from Teesside be able to afford to live in London, for instance. Or to afford to commute to do the thousands of jobs filled there by foreign workers ,living maybe short term and often in very poor conditions. Or to take another example - archaeologists - over 70% are foreign workers - why? Well we closed down lots of the University courses and even before that there are very few A Levels, and even fewer GCSE's for example. So, how do you reverse a situation that you have created by concentrating on STEM subjects.
I am only using archaeology because it is an example I know about.

Here is another example - skills shortage of geologists.
Why - because years ago India introduced training in their country for geologists.
Our response at the time - no point in investing on geologist causes in the UK - we can just get the Indians in.
But, it doesn’t pay much.....
 
I’m not having a go at you Cooper, by the way, so apologies if it’s coming across like I am.

I just think that Priti Patel is an example of the worst kind of politician. She basically decided to sound tough on both immigration and worklessness, without a moment’s thought to the practicalities of what she was suggesting.

It plays into the idea that there are simple solutions to complex problems, which is becoming far too prevalent in our political discourse these days.

BH yeah I kind of got what you meant by asking. Didn’t think you were having a direct hi. I agree it’s a complex problem which doesn’t have an easy answer as she suggested. My point was that people shouldn’t scaremonger like some posters were
 
It is not 'scaremongering' or 'project fear' or whatever other label you want to make up, it is the informed opinion of leaders of industries that will be most affected by these measures. Do you claim to know more than these people?
 
It is not 'scaremongering' or 'project fear' or whatever other label you want to make up, it is the informed opinion of leaders of industries that will be most affected by these measures. Do you claim to know more than these people?

so business leaders are stating that families will have to move to seek work or lose their benefits? I’m pretty sure they are not. So yes I know there is no such policy in place that suggests this so yeah maybe I do know more. If you read the beginning of the thread you will understand my post to scaremongering was around that issue
 
Looking at every possibility is not scaremongering it’s a taking a situation and expressing an opinion on what might happen Cooper, the point is there’s a definite dissonance between the areas where the economically inactive live and where the job shortfalls are going to occur, so the question of how one group of people in one area will fill the employment requirements in another is pretty germane rather than alarmist.
 
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