Playing Out from the Back without Quality

[festa5]

If we have Hackney and howson playing then I'm much more confident of beating anything but the best of presses.

The ultimate was when we had Chuba who we could just fire the ball into on half way and most of the time he could hold it, spin and get us on the attack out wide. It would be amazing if we could get him back in the summer either perm or on loan.

Teams in the championship don't tend to change the way the play from game to game. I imagine it's because it is not realistic to change a playing style in 3 days and it would leave you under-prepared. Your best chance is just being great at plan A.

A fully fit, on form, Hackney makes a massive difference to playing that way. He's the best at receiving under the ball under pressure and capable of turning away from players. Makes it harder to press him (because you'll get turned) and gives the rest of the team more options because of it.

As you say, if you have that and a 10 who you can fire it into the feet of, it makes a massive difference.

 

[newusername]

I could be wrong but I think he was trying a wall pass off O'Brien? LOB bringing their man creates the angle for a ball further up the pitch/into midfield if he just plays it back to Seny?

Maybe but the only people moving, apart from O'Brien & their player, is the ref & VDB. Sunny D is spare but static & if the ball comes back to him he's just going to kick it long 1st time.

 

[Redwurzel]

The problem is when playing the ball centrally from the back. because when you lose it you normally concede.

If the ball is played wide and short and lose it you can normally recover it.

Personally with the players we have I would not bother playing it short as often as we do.

The other consideration is the state of some pitches - Hull's didn't look as good as the Riverside, possibly because it used for Rugby. Common sense tells me there are more chance of bobbles on Rugby pitches.

 

[dooderooni]

I don't mind us doing it, but you need to be very careful that you do it right.
You need to include the second ball in your thinking even before playing the first pass. As said above somewhere, a wall or bounce pass is how you break the press and it's the second ball and good movement that is the key.
That ball into O'Brien wasn't great, but even if it had been better there wasn't much on once the ball came back to Dieng apart from a long ball.
I know it's City, but The Athletic did an analysis of Ederson a few seasons back and his favourite way to play out was to the sides, not straight out of the box. Again, it's been said above, but you can recover better if these go astray.

 

[Transitarmy]

I remember Stefan playing the ball out to Mcnair last year, the goal conceded at Hull was almost identical.

 

[newusername]

I remember Stefan playing the ball out to Mcnair last year, the goal conceded at Hull was almost identical.

Nope.

 

[changingman]

I don't mind us doing it, but you need to be very careful that you do it right.
You need to include the second ball in your thinking even before playing the first pass. As said above somewhere, a wall or bounce pass is how you break the press and it's the second ball and good movement that is the key.
That ball into O'Brien wasn't great, but even if it had been better there wasn't much on once the ball came back to Dieng apart from a long ball.
I know it's City, but The Athletic did an analysis of Ederson a few seasons back and his favourite way to play out was to the sides, not straight out of the box. Again, it's been said above, but you can recover better if these go astray.

Good point, wide angle picture above shows there's very little on, even if LOB plays the ball straight back to Seny. It's poor play from us but also a strong press from us, they've got us 3-2 before we can even get into midfield (I think).

Ipswich tend to stand off a bit in the first phase so at least there's some minor encouragement for today - we'll just lose it in midfield rather than defence

 

[MickaelDebevePhenomenal]

The "tactic" has earned us far more points than we've lost. There will always be the odd individual error, passes go astray all over the ptich, 1that's the nature of the beast.

What we miss is having a "10" that we can clip a 40 yard pass into, to beat the press, and he can successfully hold the ball up, turn and get us playing forward, when the opposition go man for man.
This is where we miss Chuba massively.

 

[Steve Bee]

We've been lucky with it all season as we've been caught that many times and not punished. It's madness with the players we have and suicidal when Barlaser and Fry are on pitch

 

[FishofContemplation]

Our season ended with the error from attempting to play it out from the keeper. I accept it is part and parcel now of modern day football and also attach no blame to Dieng given what he did the rest of the game (and the season). But if you haven't got the ball playing skills of Man City it can be a very risky strategy against quick pressing opponents. Surely you have to have a plan B to employ.

Burnley have also employed this tactic all season and I believe they have conceded 10 goals directly leading from their inability to shift the ball accurately between defenders receiving the ball short from the keeper.

Even with Burnley, to assess the merits of the tactic, you still have to sit against those 10 two other numbers:
How many have they scored through attacks that were built from the back;
How many would they have conceded if instead of attempting to build from the back they had immediately hoofed the ball back to the opposition?

The first might be measurable, but the second is always a hypothetical, but you still have to keep both in mind in assessing whether the tactic has worked for Burnley. As I am sure the expensive data analysts that all clubs employ do. No club does this to lose on purpose.

 

[FishofContemplation]

We've been lucky with it all season as we've been caught that many times and not punished. It's madness with the players we have and suicidal when Barlaser and Fry are on pitch

I don’t think it’s possible to be lucky with something all season. Not if that something happens multiple times a game anyway. It’s too big a sample size for the consequences not to end up broadly matching the real underlying level of risk. You need to accept if there is something you feel that about, what you have really done is overestimate the underlying level of risk in the scenario that we have been “lucky“ in

 

[Billyzin]

It's our failures against the likes of Rotherham that have banjoed our season.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Nothing wrong with the tactic but it's got to be used at the right time. We've been caught out a few times since we started using it, each time I can remember it going wrong was because the pass shouldn't have been played that particular time. Both Dieng and Glover have been responsible for it.

 

[Quicksilvera]

Imagine if it was Glover who did that? The pitchforks would have been sharpened that’s for sure.

 

[BoroMart]

A fully fit, on form, Hackney makes a massive difference to playing that way. He's the best at receiving under the ball under pressure and capable of turning away from players. Makes it harder to press him (because you'll get turned) and gives the rest of the team more options because of it.

As you say, if you have that and a 10 who you can fire it into the feet of, it makes a massive difference.

Exactly my thoughts, Barlaser might have a better passing accuracy, but Hackney’s ability to receive under pressure, turn and drive at the opposition is leagues above Barlaser and and in our preferred tactic the drop off when Hackney’s injured and Barlaser plays is well night and day