Playing Out from the Back without Quality

Zoophonic

Zoophonic

Well-known member
Our season ended with the error from attempting to play it out from the keeper. I accept it is part and parcel now of modern day football and also attach no blame to Dieng given what he did the rest of the game (and the season). But if you haven't got the ball playing skills of Man City it can be a very risky strategy against quick pressing opponents. Surely you have to have a plan B to employ.

Burnley have also employed this tactic all season and I believe they have conceded 10 goals directly leading from their inability to shift the ball accurately between defenders receiving the ball short from the keeper.
 
Laughing said:
It wasn't a failure to play out from the back really. It was a suicidal ball from a keeper who wasn't under any pressure.
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Of course it was an individual error but arising from the tactic to play that way. Its a risk and we got caught. My point was I dont want to castigate Dieng and am more interested in the thoughts about the tactic in general.
 
Zoophonic said:
Our season ended with the error from attempting to play it out from the keeper. I accept it is part and parcel now of modern day football and also attach no blame to Dieng given what he did the rest of the game (and the season). But if you haven't got the ball playing skills of Man City it can be a very risky strategy against quick pressing opponents. Surely you have to have a plan B to employ.

Burnley have also employed this tactic all season and I believe they have conceded 10 goals directly leading from their inability to shift the ball accurately between defenders receiving the ball short from the keeper.
Click to expand...
We didn't employ it against Norwich if I'm remembering correctly and a few others.

It was a costly error and v frustrating. We scored two good goals and they got a fluke and a gift.
 
I still have no issue with us playing out from the back as long as we mix it up.

In recent weeks we have done that. Occasionally going short and occasionally longer.

People are always talking about plan B’s and C’s etc. but how do you think we should play? Personnel kind of limits us to how and what we can play.

It’s less about the act of playing out from the back and more around making the right decisions for me. Last night was a poor decision from Dieng to play O’Brien into that position. Hull changed their approach after 20 minutes and clearly fancied it on the press. We didn’t adapt to that and struggled for the rest of the half.

Last year we were very good at playing out from the back. But that’s as much to do with having outlets at the top end of the pitch who would make it work too. Hackney / Howson were playing at the top of their game. Chuba would drop deep, Archer could hold it up. The wider players often utilised the space and provided real goal threats.

Unfortunately, this year, beyond some of the poor decisions, we’ve struggled with making the ball stick further up the pitch and the attacking players just haven’t been as effective at punishing sides.

The transfer window has got to hinge on that. We need a really effective number 10, better wide players and the middle of the pitch strengthening to support / replace Hackney and Howson.

I still don’t know what my plan B would have been this season with the players available. I think Carrick has done the best he can with the players available - certainly in the last couple of months.
 
We have played it all season long. Mostly to good effect. It unravelled against Chelsea and I wish we hadn't but thats football.

We will concede again with a daft mistake using it that is for certain.
 
Zoophonic said:
Of course it was an individual error but arising from the tactic to play that way. Its a risk and we got caught. My point was I dont want to castigate Dieng and am more interested in the thoughts about the tactic in general.
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Yes I didn't say it was not an individual error, you are right, it clearly was.

I said the error wasn't a result of playing out from the back. It was a result of Dieng not being aware of what was in front of him.

You can play out from the back without doing that and you don't need to be man city to avoid doing that.
 
Laughing said:
Yes I didn't say it was not an individual error, you are right, it clearly was.

I said the error wasn't a result of playing out from the back. It was a result of Dieng not being aware of what was in front of him.

You can play out from the back without doing that and you don't need to be man city to avoid doing that.
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Butnley need those wise words of wisdom. 😂
 
Need more brains & thought about when to play short & when to pass longer.. just playing short makes it too easy for them & more risky for us.

Both goals last night conceded by players not being defensively switched on enough.. defensive awareness seems to be going out of the game..
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
We have played it all season long. Mostly to good effect. It unravelled against Chelsea and I wish we hadn't but thats football.

We will concede again with a daft mistake using it that is for certain.
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It also unravelled against Plymouth and bristol at home and numerous other matches.

We haven't stuck to it religiously all season. We played long for most of the Leicester away match. We mixed it up against Norwich and the following matches and we've slowly gone back to almost exclusively playing from the back.
 
Zoophonic said:
Our season ended with the error from attempting to play it out from the keeper. I accept it is part and parcel now of modern day football and also attach no blame to Dieng given what he did the rest of the game (and the season). But if you haven't got the ball playing skills of Man City it can be a very risky strategy against quick pressing opponents. Surely you have to have a plan B to employ.

Burnley have also employed this tactic all season and I believe they have conceded 10 goals directly leading from their inability to shift the ball accurately between defenders receiving the ball short from the keeper.
Click to expand...
I made a similar observation on the match thread last night, players need to be able to control the ball and move it on in the same movement especially when under pressure.
 
Any tactic is only effective if it's part of an overall strategy. If you play out from the back every single time then the defenders will be able to predict what you are going to do and will press higher. If you always go long then the defenders will not press. If you do a mixture of the two then defenders can't press high because it leaves gaps if you go long so defenders have to be more cautious which allows you more room to play out from the back.

Playing out from the back wasn't the problem. Dieng played a ball when he shouldn't have done. If the Hull defenders were all pressing high it means there was more space further up the pitch so Dieng made the wrong decision. It was an individual error.
 
I’d take the odd mistake of this kind all day long if it means having a progressive coach who likes his teams to try and play football. I’d also say that you need to take into account how many goals playing out from the back has allowed us to score. It’s the way we play. The benefits far outweigh the negatives imo. I’d also not blame Dieng. I’d not blame anyone tbh because I don’t think it’s helpful but the responsibility lies with Carrick. For me it’s frustrating but it’s just one of those things.
 
It was Dieng's fault, but he's still well in credit on the night and on the season.

I think we've mixed it up a bit more in recent matches too, though Dieng's long passing wasn't what it usually is last night either.
 
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viv_andersons_nana said:
I’d take the odd mistake of this kind all day long if it means having a progressive coach who likes his teams to try and play football. I’d also say that you need to take into account how many goals playing out from the back has allowed us to score. It’s the way we play. The benefits far outweigh the negatives imo.
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My personal peeve is we play it short all over the pitch except corners, sick of us lumping the ball aimlessly into the box & it leading to nothing.
We should do short corners, try & create an overload at the corner if they only send 1 if they send 2 then that is 2 less bodies in the box to head away the aimless punt.
 
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