Patrick Roberts isn't happing......

The money isn't there to buy proven quality in terms of a creative midfielder. But that's when you cast the net wider. There'll be plenty of promising players in Europe who fit the bill and are affordable.

It's a risk because you don't know if they can step up to a stronger league. But I'd rather take that risk than end up with no creativity whatsoever. Its a lower risk than spending stupid money and committing to big contracts gambling on promotion.

Even if not resounding successes these sorts of player can still have an impact. Ledesma for example, wasn't anywhere near consistent enough, but he still won us quite a few matches we'd otherwise have drawn or lost.

We seem to labouring under the misconception we need to be bringing in top quality in that position and turning our noses up at anyone who isnt. But when you have almost no-one at all who can play that role it's not actually that hard to improve on it. I certainly wouldn't say no to having a Ledesma or a Zemmama in the squad who can come off the bench and do something a bit different.
 
festa5 said:
The money isn't there to buy proven quality in terms of a creative midfielder. But that's when you cast the net wider. There'll be plenty of promising players in Europe who fit the bill and are affordable.

It's a risk because you don't know if they can step up to a stronger league. But I'd rather take that risk than end up with no creativity whatsoever. Its a lower risk than spending stupid money and committing to big contracts gambling on promotion.

Even if not resounding successes these sorts of player can still have an impact. Ledesma for example, wasn't anywhere near consistent enough, but he still won us quite a few matches we'd otherwise have drawn or lost.

We seem to labouring under the misconception we need to be bringing in top quality in that position and turning our noses up at anyone who isnt. But when you have almost no-one at all who can play that role it's not actually that hard to improve on it. I certainly wouldn't say no to having a Ledesma or a Zemmama in the squad who can come off the bench and do something a bit different.
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Again, totally agree. The concern I have and I've got nothing to back this up but gut feeling is I fear we have scaled back our scouting network over recent seasons in line with our cost cutting.

Warnock made some comment early doors in the summer break about us primarily covering France when talking about the recruitment team. Add that to our tendency to sign from British clubs over the past few years too and it certainly seems like our net is covering a much smaller proportion of the world than it once did.

This might be me adding 2 + 2 and getting 5, but it almost looks like we're concentrating on markets very close to England, certainly a short commute away. Wouldn't surprise me if we're only really covering the UK, France and Holland, Belgium with our physical scouting network. Outside of that it's excel spreadsheets and you tube/agent videos. Shame, as central and Eastern Europe has always offered good value for money.
 
theredrooster said:
Again, totally agree. The concern I have and I've got nothing to back this up but gut feeling is I fear we have scaled back our scouting network over recent seasons in line with our cost cutting.

Warnock made some comment early doors in the summer break about us primarily covering France when talking about the recruitment team. Add that to our tendency to sign from British clubs over the past few years too and it certainly seems like our net is covering a much smaller proportion of the world than it once did.

This might be me adding 2 + 2 and getting 5, but it almost looks like we're concentrating on markets very close to England, certainly a short commute away. Wouldn't surprise me if we're only really covering the UK, France and Holland, Belgium with our physical scouting network. Outside of that it's excel spreadsheets and you tube/agent videos. Shame, as central and Eastern Europe has always offered good value for money.
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I'm sure there's another Tarmo Kink out there if we look hard enough;)
 
S7DiscoDown said:
Warnock said that Roberts is pretty much a no go. Just read an interview where he says he would need to sign 'two defensive fullbacks' to accommodate Patrick.

So basically saying he doesn't defend😂

Also thinks Tavs done ok in that position and we could have a 'real player' in Wing if he takes games by the scruff of the neck.. Suggesting he doesn't.

I guess he is one of the ones he wants to impress tonight.

It's a bit of a shame about Roberts. We clearly have made 2 forwards and maybe a CB priority.
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Roberts was brought in by Woodgate. Warnock has come in assessed the squad and clearly sees the shape and direction of the squad going in a different direction. One which does not necessarily accommodate Roberts.

This stacks up with Kenneth Zohore being Warnock's number one transfer target.
 
I thought Roberts was good, but not great. I won't say he promised much and failed to deliver, because he did provide some end product, just not as much as he promised. He was fun to watch, but I don't think that comes into NWs thinking much.
I also suspect he's a relatively expensive option which obviously comes into the decision making at the moment.
 
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TBF I loved Roberts, even though he could be frustrating at times, he had something no other player we have had atm. But I love Warnock more, and will respect his view.
 
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Anton_Berg said:
I agree that people are having false memories about Roberts (even though he played fairly recently). He looked no better than that player we got from Brum who dived all the time, can't even remember his name*.
The mindset people have about 11-man defence nowadays is depressing, though.

* ed - Diego Fabbrini. Loaned from Watford to several clubs.
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I think fabbrini was better during his time here. More of a goal threat
 
We certainly lacked someone to link the midfield and attack on Friday night. Not suggesting an out and out number 10 but perhaps a player who can play in front of the midfield to "drift" and find space/passes?

I think Tav tried to perform that role on Friday but with limited effect. I think he's a neat technical player but not intelligent to play the role effectively, far too many times he takes too long on the ball or runs into blind alleys where he is crowded out. I still maintain his best position is out wide where he can square up against his man and beat him with technique/pace, it's a simpler game out there than in the middle.
 
In the final games of last season Tav out performed Roberts. I think Roberts scored one and made a couple, not sure what Tav's figures were but it was noticeable that in the final games it was Tav getting the nod in front of Roberts. And we don't have to buy Tav. I liked Roberts, he was exciting to watch and took players on but Tav was and is more effective in the team. Yeah Tav didn't have a great game against Watford (hardly alone in that) but it was obvious that Watford had identified him and Spence as our "creators" and doubled up on both when they could.

Roberts really needs to be playing most games now to grow his contribution to team performance, perhaps he'll get that north of the border? Good luck to the lad.
 
Tarmo Kink / Yanic Wildschut (best debut ever)

I agree that nothing gets you more excited than a foreign unknown😂. They usually let you down but I believe you can find some gems. I imagine Brentford fans were googling Saïd Benrahma thinking 'who the fecks he' at 2.5mil.

It's been years since we've found an absolute 'gem'. When did we last buy a player for 500k-1mil and sell for 5-10 times that? We just paid a fortune for players so we can't sell them on (also no fecker can pay them).

I forgot about Ledesma. I always thought he was decent for what we paid (200k or something? ). Decent left foot and could take a set play. So basically we need a cheap as chips Roberts or Tomlin 'type'

Over to you recruitment team😕
 
Smoke and mirrors, Warnock is a sly old fox and not giving the game plan away.
He doesn't want to focus on his key targets, playing a game of experience and not showing his hand.
That's what I think is happening just now, previously ITK peoe were accurate and had good snippets , just now it's all very locked down by the club, which is a good thing providing it gives us the players we need.
 
Maccarone said:
Smoke and mirrors, Warnock is a sly old fox and not giving the plan away.
He doesn't want to focus on his key targets, playing a game of experience and not showing his hand.
That's what I think is happening just now, previously ITK peoe were accurate and had good snippets , just now it's all very locked down the club, which is a good thing providing it gives us the players we need.
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Good point. there's still every chance we get Roberts on TDD, but his agent will want to keep all options open until then.
 
Yes maybe about Roberts on loan. The loan window doesn't close until a week after the transfer window (for domestic loans)

This could rumble on until the end of October (including players out). Think Neil will be sick of folk asking😂
 
I totally agree with Warnock, this doesn't mean it isn't happening though. I personally would like to see defensive fullbacks rather than wing backs if we can get them in. Our current wing backs are terrible defensively and on Friday our centre halves struggled to cover for them. I'll let the lack of creativity on Friday go, it's difficult to break down a side with experienced defenders, like Carthcart, when they score early, especially as Watford didn't have a crowd urging them forward for another
 
Warnock is pretty honest, I doubt he would moan about Roberts defensive contribution and then still hope to convince him to sign.

Disappointing if true, we look so much better go forward with Roberts in the side. We actually looked like creating and scoring when he was in the side. He’s a live wire and can make something happen out of nothing. Easily the best and most technical creative player we’ve had since Ramirez. Long season if we are relying on Tav behind the strikers, he’s not a No. 10 in a million years, he needs to be cutting in from the wing.
 
Warnock’s success has been based on collective endeavour rather than individual skill and identifying a system that works rather trying to accommodate a system around a player, QPR with Taarabt being the only example I can recall of him altering that plan, he tends to prefer direct players with physicality and work rate over players like Roberts who are more technical and more circumspect. He likes to pressurise opposition teams and create possession through error, our football will not be silky and possession based but we’ll try and go back to front quickly, I’m not sure if Roberts style compliments Warnock’s philosophy of moving the ball at pace.
 
As with many players I thought Woodgates use of Wing last season was terrible. His attributes are his passing ability and finishing. Most of the time Woodgate had him having to cover too much ground running around like a headless chicken getting nowhere near anyone or the ball. On occasions he would drop him in to Clayton's position to dictate play and increase our passing tempo but he would just attempt 'hollywood balls'. He plays best further forward where he played in the West Brom away game (once). We are currently being quite harsh on a lot of our players (Fry) due to Woody's terrible team setup and poor management.
 
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