One Upon a Time in Iraq

wilkos_perm

wilkos_perm

Well-known member
This has probably already been discussed on here but i've just finished watching this documentary series and would highly recommend.
An insight into the sheer carnage of war and the effect on people's lives
 
It is well done and interesting to reflect back on what happened. Unfortunately it felt like a passage to Hell. Saddam Hussain was very bad, but what happened after his fall seemed a hundred times worse. Bush and Blair with regards Iraq were akin to Laurel & Hardy, but it was real.
 
I think the biggest mistake was that there wasn't a plan on what to do once Saddam was gone. They just regarded any trouble as terrorism and didn't try to understand the sectarianism between the locals.
 
The decision to disband the Iraqi army and state forces, almost on the toss of a coin, is surely one of the worst political/diplomatic/military miscalculations in the last 200 years. Like hitting the 'instant shutdown' button at Chernobyl and actually unleashing hell
 
parmoboy said:
I think the biggest mistake was that there wasn't a plan on what to do once Saddam was gone. They just regarded any trouble as terrorism and didn't try to understand the sectarianism between the locals.
Click to expand...

I agree, but the level to which there was a lack of planning and anticipation was incredible. They allowed all security forces and structure to disintegrate completely, and activley caused it with their removal of all baath party members from public service (which appeared to be a large proportion of the poulation as many had no choice).
The violence of ISIS is incomprehensible, but when you consider the violence and carnage many younger members had lived through since they were kids it became more understandable how that violence and death had become normal to them (although undoubtedly horrific).
 
I know its a bit of a trendy left wing/liberal thing to say but I agree people can become brutalised and respond back with their own brutalisation.

I think the Americans and the British to some extent thought they were going into a sort of Germany 1945 and Saddam was Hitler. As said they were not interested in Shia/Sunni differences and it is a massive issue in that country almost akin to Muslim/Hindu in India.
 
It remains a crime to send our troops ill - equipped, into battles based on a pack of lies dressed up as Operation Freedom.
Bullscjitt.
 
Excellent series and should be shown in schools. As previously commented the biggest crime was not having any plan of any sort for once they had got rid of Saddam. They won the hearts of the people and then lost them just as quickly.

Its not surprising that there is a deep mistrust and hatred towards the West. The scene where the young girl described losing her eye as shrapnel bored through her cheek was especially harrowing.
 
As ever its those near the bottom of society that suffer the most like the girl above.

Power sharing is deeply divided countries is difficult at the best of times (we know from Northern Ireland), never mind after the war in Iraq.

The series was very well done. I thought I might get a bit bored, but it was more interesting than I thought and helped me make more sense of what had happened there.
 
wilkos_perm said:
I agree, but the level to which there was a lack of planning and anticipation was incredible. They allowed all security forces and structure to disintegrate completely, and activley caused it with their removal of all baath party members from public service (which appeared to be a large proportion of the poulation as many had no choice).
The violence of ISIS is incomprehensible, but when you consider the violence and carnage many younger members had lived through since they were kids it became more understandable how that violence and death had become normal to them (although undoubtedly horrific).
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was a big mistake getting rid of the infrastructure like Police etc when they invaded. It's like in this country when there's civil unrest, people call for the army to sort things out. Armies can't Police civilian population.
 
I raved about this documentary series to my family a couple of weeks back. What an incredibly powerful programme it is, especially with the both sides of the coin approach to it. A particular favourite person was the out-right red neck Marine Recon soldier who asked for the bottle of tequila just to be left next to him whilst he talked. Told it how it was, they were ruthless and did a lot of the dirty work that never got media coverage.

Definitely should never have been there, a complete waste of money, resources and ultimately lives. As one American soldier put it, "we sowed the seeds for ISIS".
 
I'll definitely give this a watch and didn't know anything about it so thanks.

The Iraq invasion was ill advised and judged and should never have happened. British people were lied to and then ignored when a million marched against it. Not having a plan post Saddam was shockingly bad.
 
FatFrank said:
I raved about this documentary series to my family a couple of weeks back. What an incredibly powerful programme it is, especially with the both sides of the coin approach to it. A particular favourite person was the out-right red neck Marine Recon soldier who asked for the bottle of tequila just to be left next to him whilst he talked. Told it how it was, they were ruthless and did a lot of the dirty work that never got media coverage.

Definitely should never have been there, a complete waste of money, resources and ultimately lives. As one American soldier put it, "we sowed the seeds for ISIS".
Click to expand...

Yes that marine was an interesting character. His training involved detaching himself, and he's obviously had to keep doing that as best as he can, but the tequila suggests he's struggling. As he said though, he's probably coping better than others.
 
The West never seemed to understand that it was Saddam who united the various factions in the country, a bit like Tito in Yugoslavia. You go in a place like that, as posters have already said, with no plan, no REAL understanding of what was going on, no relief plan, and you just just expect everything to fall into place as you envisage. Reckless is not even close.
 
Michael_Vronsky said:
The West never seemed to understand that it was Saddam who united the various factions in the country, a bit like Tito in Yugoslavia. You go in a place like that, as posters have already said, with no plan, no REAL understanding of what was going on, no relief plan, and you just just expect everything to fall into place as you envisage. Reckless is not even close.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure united is the right word, but yes he obviously understood the dynamics and controlled the various factions, albeit brutally at times
 
parmoboy said:
I think the biggest mistake was that there wasn't a plan on what to do once Saddam was gone. They just regarded any trouble as terrorism and didn't try to understand the sectarianism between the locals.
Click to expand...

No End In Sight is an Oscar nominated documentary.
Explains in more detail what happened to the "plan"

 
Michael_Vronsky said:
The West never seemed to understand that it was Saddam who united the various factions in the country, a bit like Tito in Yugoslavia. You go in a place like that, as posters have already said, with no plan, no REAL understanding of what was going on, no relief plan, and you just just expect everything to fall into place as you envisage. Reckless is not even close.
Click to expand...

Exactly the same with Gaddafi in Libya too. It was the West who created a country out of three distinct separate areas. Those areas were independent all the way back to Roman times.

Once Gaddafi was no longer an asset and removed madness decended.
 
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