One Pfizer vaccination 52% effective after 12 days (according to an article in El País in English from 13 January 2021)

reduction of deaths is the reason for the UK strategy, rather than reduction of the spread.

This come from a director of public health in London.
 
brain_in_a_jar said:
reduction of deaths is the reason for the UK strategy, rather than reduction of the spread.

This come from a director of public health in London.
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Given the Israel data you believe the nonsense coming out of the governments collective mouths? The difference between 33% and 89% is huge. What they are doing is publicising they have vaccinated 3.5 million people when in actuality they have not, no where near that number given the low efficacy after 14 days. It appears the second jab is required.

the government have lied yet again.
 
What I would say is that 33% efficacy isn't a black and white number. I will continue to hope that those who have had the first shot may still contract the virus, but hopefully will have lesser symptoms and no hospitalization.

What irks is that the government thought it was OK to mislead the public, and I use the term mislead instead of lie, generously.

Trust of this shower must be in toilet. Oh great bathroom metaphor.
 
The Israel data is no surprise. I'm the first to knock the government but this isn't a reason to.

You get one vaccine dose, wait 2 weeks and then you are no longer going to be hospitalised. That's the aim and if you have been watching the Government briefings I think this has been communicated quite clearly.

AND just from the Sky link above the study is from a very small number of people and it doesn't mention if they had symptoms or not, just that they had tested positive on a PCR test and NOT peer reviewed.

The real story regarding vaccines is that the supply is being hampered due to a factory upgrade so it looks like we may miss our mid-Feb target.
 
I hope you are right Molteni, critisizing the government aside, we all hope that the strategy, at the very least, does no harm.

Let's hope, I don't have the faith that you do and the Israel data doesn't say whether the infections in the vaccinated group were serious or not, so that bit of data is missing. Their overall findings do NOT agree with what we are being told, which is a worry.
 
Laughing said:
Given the Israel data you believe the nonsense coming out of the governments collective mouths? The difference between 33% and 89% is huge. What they are doing is publicising they have vaccinated 3.5 million people when in actuality they have not, no where near that number given the low efficacy after 14 days. It appears the second jab is required.

the government have lied yet again.
Click to expand...

To be fair I didn't say either way what I believed. This come from a director of public health in a london borough which is also a labour council, so wasn't particularly lies being peddled by torys like you suggested.

There was a fair bit of confusion on this thread about whether the strategy was to stop the spread. Which it isn't, the main concern at the moment is to reduce deaths from covid.

I felt it was an important clarification to point out, as it considerably changes the conversation around the strategy if you understand the final goal.

I've got to be honest its well beyond me to be able to work out if its a good way to go or not, I couldn't even pretend to be able to replicate the modelling and working out the different probabilities for what difference to the death rate this strategy is likely to make.

I can however see the logic that if you provide more people with a single dose, you are more likely to reduce the death rate than if you use your limited supplies to give significantly less people two doses.

For a government who's logic has been lacking throughout this pandemic, actually being able to see why they have made the decision makes me more confident in the strategy over all.

Well done to the NHS for implementing it so affectively though, imagine if we'd let them manage our track and trace programme too, we'd probably have a much better handle on the spread as well.
 
This thread should be pulled. It is littered with unscientific opinions that could be construed as anti-vax. Unless you are a scientist then you are not in a position to have an opinion and it only strengthens the anti vax argument.
 
Londons_Moggie said:
This thread should be pulled. It is littered with unscientific opinions that could be construed as anti-vax. Unless you are a scientist then you are not in a position to have an opinion and it only strengthens the anti vax argument.
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Strange. I cannot see anywhere on the thread where anyone has said do not have the vaccine. The discussion is all about who and when.

Most countries have stuck with a 3 week gap for the Pfizer vaccine. The UK has not.

At present, the jury is out about whether the UK has made a good decision or yet another bad one.
 
brain_in_a_jar said:
To be fair I didn't say either way what I believed. This come from a director of public health in a london borough which is also a labour council, so wasn't particularly lies being peddled by torys like you suggested.

There was a fair bit of confusion on this thread about whether the strategy was to stop the spread. Which it isn't, the main concern at the moment is to reduce deaths from covid.

I felt it was an important clarification to point out, as it considerably changes the conversation around the strategy if you understand the final goal.

I've got to be honest its well beyond me to be able to work out if its a good way to go or not, I couldn't even pretend to be able to replicate the modelling and working out the different probabilities for what difference to the death rate this strategy is likely to make.

I can however see the logic that if you provide more people with a single dose, you are more likely to reduce the death rate than if you use your limited supplies to give significantly less people two doses.

For a government who's logic has been lacking throughout this pandemic, actually being able to see why they have made the decision makes me more confident in the strategy over all.

Well done to the NHS for implementing it so affectively though, imagine if we'd let them manage our track and trace programme too, we'd probably have a much better handle on the spread as well.
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I agree with the comments on well done to the NHS, leave health matters to health proffessionals is usually a good strategy.

I also have no idea whether vaccinating twice as many people with a third of the efficacy is a good strategy or not, in terms of reducing deaths and hospitalizations.

As I have said before time will tell.
 
Laughing said:
I think London Smoggie is being satirical, Spanishman, based on Rob pulling another thread, which I vehemently disagreed with.
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Doh! Missed that. Mind you I have been busy with other things at the moment. As we are nowhere near as locked down as from March onwards last year.

Although it looks like our municipal boundary might be locked down at a meeting tomorrow. As we have now hit more than 500 cases per 100,000 inhabitants on the 14 day average.
 
Spanishman, what are the thoughts in Spain about sticking to the 3 week, 2 jab approach? Isit being questioned or are people agreeing with it?
 
spanishman said:
Strange. I cannot see anywhere on the thread where anyone has said do not have the vaccine. The discussion is all about who and when.

Most countries have stuck with a 3 week gap for the Pfizer vaccine. The UK has not.

At present, the jury is out about whether the UK has made a good decision or yet another bad one.
Click to expand...
Just a cheeky dig at some of the hypocrites on this thread who spent two days abusing me for posting a BMJ report into some Pfizer deaths in Norway. Thread just proves to me that some on this board have an agenda against certain people unfortunately. I don't really think there is anything wrong with this thread, just as there was nothing wrong with mine
 
I was informed that the first Pfizer jab would give me 91% protection, by the Dr who prescribed it.

I was happy to believe this as it was consistent with the government guidance.

I now don’t feel quite so confident though I don’t think anyone knows exactly how much protection one dose of this jab gives and for how long.
 
10 mins into this a member of the JCVI explains how they came up with the 90% figure & why they don't see waiting 12 weeks as a problem.

Note what he says about low efficacy in the first ten days to see how it fits in with the Israeli findings

BBC More or Less
 
Londons_Moggie said:
Just a cheeky dig at some of the hypocrites on this thread who spent two days abusing me for posting a BMJ report into some Pfizer deaths in Norway. Thread just proves to me that some on this board have an agenda against certain people unfortunately. I don't really think there is anything wrong with this thread, just as there was nothing wrong with mine
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As I said, I have not been as active on here recently. So I am not as up to speed with stuff as I used to be.
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
Spanishman, what are the thoughts in Spain about sticking to the 3 week, 2 jab approach? Isit being questioned or are people agreeing with it?
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To be honest, I have not seen anything questioning it at all. It is just what people are expecting to happen with the Pfizer vaccine.

Vaccine discussions here seem to be more around the rate at which the different regions are using the stock of vaccines. Plus the short term delay to the delivery of Pfizer vaccines.
 
BoroBosco said:
10 mins into this a member of the JCVI explains how they came up with the 90% figure & why they don't see waiting 12 weeks as a problem.

Note what he says about low efficacy in the first ten days to see how it fits in with the Israeli findings

BBC More or Less
Click to expand...
You really need to read the Israel report as that BBC article does not address why after 14 days efficacy was measured at 33% not 90%.

I get the Pfizer figure of 50% versus 90%, because Pfizer averaged it from day 1. That isn't what the Israel study does and they tested 200,000 people after 14 days where the vaccination is supposed to be approaching its peak effectiveness. That effectiveness was not 90% after 1 dose, but 33% in a real world study, not a lab trial or assumptive conclusions from JVCI.
 
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