Not getting rid of my 2.5 Litre Petrol

Fusion is very clean and free. It's just not achievable today. An experiment in the US managed to sustain nuclear fusion for 2 thousands of a second. In that time it generated enough power to power the state of new York for a year, if memory serves it was terrawatts of energy. Its also on demand.

There is a question of whether we will ever be able to harness a sustained reaction.
 
Fusion is very clean and free. It's just not achievable today. An experiment in the US managed to sustain nuclear fusion for 2 thousands of a second. In that time it generated enough power to power the state of new York for a year, if memory serves it was terrawatts of energy. Its also on demand.

There is a question of whether we will ever be able to harness a sustained reaction.
Yeah it’s a bit of a unicorn isn’t it? We know from the sun that it can create massive and long term energy. I wonder if we ever can get it to work commercially. It’d change the game. If not we’d have to reduce the energy we use and the world just isn’t set up for that.
 
I don't think I've seen such a concentrated level of FUD anti EV lies for about 10 years. It's actually amusing that you hold on to anti EV propaganda so long after it has been disproven.

We are trying to have a serious thread about EV now there no need for old skool FUD lies
And yet you never address the points that are made. The problems listed are all from people who drive EVs.

The ironic thing is I suspect that Smalltown and possibly Andy are not particularly proactive in terms of the environment. I'm guessing both will happily jump on a flight and also have significant carbon footprints as consumers. Everything is disposable and the emphasis is on getting the latest gadget.

Not sure where Andy is located but Smalltown is supposed to be in London. You don't need a vehicle in London, just use public transport. This EV thing is a gimmick for me, at least at the moment.
 
And yet you never address the points that are made. The problems listed are all from people who drive EVs.

The ironic thing is I suspect that Smalltown and possibly Andy are not particularly proactive in terms of the environment. I'm guessing both will happily jump on a flight and also have significant carbon footprints as consumers. Everything is disposable and the emphasis is on getting the latest gadget.

Not sure where Andy is located but Smalltown is supposed to be in London. You don't need a vehicle in London, just use public transport. This EV thing is a gimmick for me, at least at the moment.
I don't really need to address points that are proven lies
 
That’s good going. Is it a revision 1 leaf? Even as a staunch defender of EV I’m surprised the battery isn’t at about 50% capacity by now. As far as EV go that one’s pretty basic and old technology so it’s good to hear of one doing long distances. As we have already said the motors themselves will do twice that easily. It’s the batteries that will wear done
Yeah the battery is not as good as previously, so he's given the Leaf to his son and bought a new Tesla R, which I had a drive in the other week and was very impressed with. Superb speed and acceleration and great handling on the winding coastal road I was driving on. Our Govt gives a rebate on new EVs, making the R cost just less than NZ$60k (about 29K quid). I've got a full use work car at the mo, but when I no longer work here and have to get my own I'll deffo get an EV too.
 
Yeah the battery is not as good as previously, so he's given the Leaf to his son and bought a new Tesla R, which I had a drive in the other week and was very impressed with. Superb speed and acceleration and great handling on the winding coastal road I was driving on. Our Govt gives a rebate on new EVs, making the R cost just less than NZ$60k (about 29K quid). I've got a full use work car at the mo, but when I no longer work here and have to get my own I'll deffo get an EV too.
What's a Tesla R?
 
0-60 in 1.1 seconds! That is insane!

It's like the 8 dart finish, and will there ever be a boy born who can swim faster than a shark? Will progress mean one day you will hit 60 in 0.0 seconds?
 
May I just thank Smalltown, Boromart, Andy W and Unravel for their posts.
I will certainly choose an EV next time I buy, so the questions are for me:
1. Should I buy, or lease?
2. When to do it - am thinking of driving my Diesel Evoque for another three years until it has little resale value. I drive about 10k miles per year with a declining number of long distance journeys.

I am more reconciled to trains for long journeys, public transport in cities if I go; I have no problem with space for access to a charger at home.
My only motivation to go EV is Green, but reading your input, the conversion clearly has other upsides too.
Some more stuff on EVs: We were car-less for more than twenty years. It was never much of a problem in London - I'd cycle most places including to work, otherwise public transport would do. Two things decided Mrs. Smog that she wanted a car again - Covid, therefore a reluctance to travel on public transport and the birth of our grandaughter, so a desire to see her more often. Our son lives in Manchester. She leased a 70 plate Renault Zoe. All repairs and breakdowns are covered, insurance with an excess, further insured against. In addition the car comes with 1000 free miles a month using BP Polar, Instavolt or Shell Recharge. We have to park on the street so no there's no home charging for us.

We have developed an MO for driving to Manchester. Stop at Harvester Inns, which have BP Polar rapid chargers in their car parks, just off the M1 or M40 or Shell Recharge at Cannock, or near Warwick. The station car park near our son's house has two free Type 2 7kwh chargers, so we can recharge before leaving for home. The real world range of the car is around 200 miles [depending], the distance from our house a little more than that. En route, we use the charge time for a break to eat. The journey takes a little longer than it would with an ICE but it's no dealbreaker.

Our son's partner is Spanish. They like to spend as much time as they can in Spain. In September the boy rented a house in Castellon province for a meet-up of the two families. We took the car. We covered more than 5000km in a mazy drive to and from. There were a few malfunctioning chargers, but we made sure we had fall-backs. There are heaps of reasonably cheap 22kwh chargers [picnic time] in France away from the motorways, not so many in Spain, where mostly we used 50kwh Iberdrola rapid chargers, which are more expensive. total charge cost was around 150 euros. Our UK network cards do not cover mainland Europe. Green Card cover was an extra £200.

In spite of all of the above working moderately well, the public charge infrastructure could definitely do with some government intervention to rationalise it. I'm sure one of Boris's hedge fund chums would do the job for a few percent off the top.
 
Didn't I see an article from a Spanish paper saying that the fast charges were proving to be more expensive than conventional petrol? One of our Spanish correspondents can probably confirm our deny that.
 
Not far off I'd say. An Iberdrola rapid charge cost us 1 euro per 3.25 kwh, which is around 13 miles worth. Petrol was about 1 euro 40 per litre.
That's interesting I hope they don't go down the same route in other countries. I am all for cleaner cars, not for me at the minute but as an idea I like it.
 
Probably wise not to get too high on recycling these batteries as they are not designed to be recyclable. And let's face it, if these things were going to last then recycling them wouldn't be so much of an issue. That tells me they don't last. They aren't proven and I strongly suspect they won't stand the test of time. We also know that efficient and well functioning recycling industries aren't an easy thing to implement. They still can't even do it properly with plastic. Obviously you or I or the man walking his dog can say this is going to happen and that is going to happen in so many years. But that doesn't mean anything. Especially as these things have been said for quite a while now.

And just remember:

The range is not the range! Cold weather can reduce battery performance by up to 50%.

The range is not the range! Battery is recommended to operate between 20% and 80% to avoid problems. That's 60% of capacity....and throw in some cold weather!?

The running costs are not the running costs! Obviously. See above.

Battery drains constantly, even when not in use.

Constant charging duty when you return home. Don't forget to plug in!

Used EVs, did the first owner look after the battery. Probably not if they were on PCP. They were paying to drive it not look after it! Tough luck who gets the battery next!
That's the thing, they won't need recycling not for performance as we know the batteries are good for 500k miles and may only lose 10% capacity in that time. But people may choose to recycle them due to the mineral value, being put to better use in even better batteries. Them 4 oil rigs over Seaton Carew way were not designed to be recyclable, but they're currently being recycled, can say the same for the Tuxedo Royale.

Won't stand the test of time? They already have. The tesla roadster (in 2006) was made up of 7 thousand lithium ion batteries. Rechargeable batteries are in almost everything we rely one, and have been for decades, and can be charges thousands of times. The battery protection measures on these cars is better than any other rechargeable device any of us own. They've got better, not worse, and will get better still.

And just remember:
The quoted WLTP range for my car is 240 miles, and I've done 250, with some to spare.
Cold? 50%? I couldn't get it down to 50% if I tried, and believe me, I've tried as I nail it everywhere. The lowest I've possibly got to is 180 miles, which was in winter, driving at speeds I shouldn't have been, with regen off.
Good job 99% of driving is between 20% and 80% then, even in the cold. I've not had mnie charged over 80% more than once in 6 months, and it's not been below 20% since the first month I owned it.
The running costs for EV is much less, as pointed out countless times, with numerous calculations (and real world proof). My 400BHP SUV is the most economical (fuel cost v miles) car I've had.
Battery drains, when not in use, was there even any point in mentioning that? Your car battery drains when not in use, you then use fuel/ energy to top that back up. I've never noticed that in my EV, but had a flat battery on my ICE cars plenty of times.
Charging duty? Who tops up your car at the petrol station? You know, when you're stood next to it for 5 minutes in the cold each time?
I'm on PCP, I look after my battery, although in reality it won't make much difference, as most cars now have more battery than the car lets you use, and the last part is topped up slowly.
 
I am sure ev's will get cleaner but to say the combustion engine has gone as far as it can is clearly wrong in terms of efficiency and power. Compare any car from 20 years ago to a 2021 model and they are more powerful and burn less fuel per mile.

You could say the same about battery tech, it's a mature tech that companies have to spend a lot of money to improve.
I said they've pretty much hit a wall with ICE, which they hit about 10 years ago, the gains since/ now are marginal and nobody is investing anywhere near as much in development of ICE now, so that development will halt.

Batteries have been around for decades, but now more is being invested in better types, methods, tech, life and regen than ever, same as aerodynamics etc, which is crucial for efficiency. All of that is largely tailored to cars and by carmakers, where as 10 years ago this was not the case.
 
We actually need better batteries made from sustainable resources and clean electricity for ev's to be the longterm answer. I am not sure they are, I think they are a stepping stone. Though we will have clean electricity very soon. Storage in car batterries probably isn't the answer.
Smaller batteries, more efficient batteries, and faster charging will mean the cars become much lighter and gain even more efficiency, and by then the charging will be even faster.

We could be near a 10kW battery, doing 100 miles before the end of the decade, being charged in a minute. That's not even double the efficiency of the most efficient EV currently, and not even double the fastest speed we can charge at now.

You won't need a 80kW battery, as 10kW could do a massive chunk of people, and 20kW >99% of people, at those charging speeds.
That cuts the amount of minerals needed by 75-90%. By then people might not even need to own a car, as taxis will either be driverless, remotely driven, or super cheap to go anywhere.
 
That's interesting I hope they don't go down the same route in other countries. I am all for cleaner cars, not for me at the minute but as an idea I like it.
Bear in mind that's for rapid chargers which are more expensive than slow ones and significantly more expensive than home ones. For 90+% of your refuelling you won't be using rapids. Best case scenario is you'll plug in and use earth's yellow soon for zero cost but even worst case you'll be parking at a public 7kwer overnight or at work to refuel and it'll be much cheaper
 
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