Not cacking all over my bed!

[SmoggyRambo]

I won’t be throwing the toys out of the pram just yet!

We had an unbelievable season last year, probably beyond our expectations, but we had to move away from the model of short term players from loans etc.

This season was always going to be a season where we had to start from scratch and work on a rebuild.
There’s been some great moments this season league cup, Sunderland etc, but a mid table finish is probably where we’re at.

I’d like us to see out this project with Carrick and reckon we will be better for it over the next couple of seasons.

Lets see some decent performances and youth players coming through for the rest of this of this season, build on what we’ve got over the summer and see and improvement in league position next year.

We’re not ready as club for the Prem any way, hopefully sticking with this project will mean we move towards that goal. I think we will, we’ve seen some quality football over the last 18months under Carrick with the right 11 on the pitch.

I really don’t want to start again. I still believe!

 

[MichaelDebeve]

 

[Glover_elbow]

I won’t be throwing the toys out of the pram just yet!

We had an unbelievable season last year, probably beyond our expectations, but we had to move away from the model of short term players from loans etc.

This season was always going to be a season where we had to start from scratch and work on a rebuild.
There’s been some great moments this season league cup, Sunderland etc, but a mid table finish is probably where we’re at.

I’d like us to see out this project with Carrick and reckon we will be better for it over the next couple of seasons.

Lets see some decent performances and youth players coming through for the rest of this of this season, build on what we’ve got over the summer and see and improvement in league position next year.

We’re not ready as club for the Prem any way, hopefully sticking with this project will mean we move towards that goal. I think we will, we’ve seen some quality football over the last 18months under Carrick with the right 11 on the pitch.

I really don’t want to start again. I still believe!

I have faith in carrick less sure he will ever get the resources required for promotion

 

[atypical_boro]

I’d like us to see out this project with Carrick and reckon we will be better for it over the next couple of seasons.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but the Carrick 'project' has 1 year to run on paper.

If we're doing well this time next year, sure, we may be able to persuade him to sign a new deal (if he isn't in demand, though he could be), but if we aren't I think all parties would just agree its time for him to move on.

Its hard to imagine a scenario where Carrick is in charge for the 2025-2026 season if we don't win promotion via the play-offs at least. Even if we made the play-offs and failed, I could well imagine him fancying a new challenge and/or being poached.

 

[SmoggyRambo]

We’ve made some decent returns on players over the last couple of seasons… I’m hoping it’s all part of the plan to invest in Carrick this Summer and get us move along for next year…

 

[Nano]

I won’t be throwing the toys out of the pram just yet!

We had an unbelievable season last year, probably beyond our expectations, but we had to move away from the model of short term players from loans etc.

This season was always going to be a season where we had to start from scratch and work on a rebuild.
There’s been some great moments this season league cup, Sunderland etc, but a mid table finish is probably where we’re at.

I’d like us to see out this project with Carrick and reckon we will be better for it over the next couple of seasons.

Lets see some decent performances and youth players coming through for the rest of this of this season, build on what we’ve got over the summer and see and improvement in league position next year.

We’re not ready as club for the Prem any way, hopefully sticking with this project will mean we move towards that goal. I think we will, we’ve seen some quality football over the last 18months under Carrick with the right 11 on the pitch.

I really don’t want to start again. I still believe!

I supported this approach last summer and I was very critical previously that, despite the (nearly) success, it wasn't sustainable to have to start again every season with a whole new set of players. However, I was not satisfied with the recruitment leaving us with half a squad missing to start the season ad essentially writing off August (again). I have also not been happy with the ratio of quality to project players. We need some quality in the squad and the project players should be developing alongside them. We have only signed project players and the players we had left were not the quality ones. It's far easier to develop and build confidence in a good team than it is in one that is struggling.

I also am not happy that the club don't communicate this and let fans work it out for themselves after asking them to pay the highest prices in the league. It's one thing as fans to pay the most for a season when you can be competitive at the top of the league but it's another completely to sell that message and then go the budget route with the squad.

The other issue is that time with a manager tends to be brief. Either they get sacked for not performing or they leave because the club isn't performing. I think we are in danger of wasting our opportunity with a good manager and by the time the development and re-investment pays off he will be gone. Or the fans will turn on him because results are poor even though he's been given no resources to achieve promotion.

 

[SmoggyRambo]

I supported this approach last summer and I was very critical previously that, despite the (nearly) success, it wasn't sustainable to have to start again every season with a whole new set of players. However, I was not satisfied with the recruitment leaving us with half a squad missing to start the season ad essentially writing off August (again). I have also not been happy with the ratio of quality to project players. We need some quality in the squad and the project players should be developing alongside them. We have only signed project players and the players we had left were not the quality ones. It's far easier to develop and build confidence in a good team than it is in one that is struggling.

I also am not happy that the club don't communicate this and let fans work it out for themselves after asking them to pay the highest prices in the league. It's one thing as fans to pay the most for a season when you can be competitive at the top of the league but it's another completely to sell that message and then go the budget route with the squad.

The other issue is that time with a manager tends to be brief. Either they get sacked for not performing or they leave because the club isn't performing. I think we are in danger of wasting our opportunity with a good manager and by the time the development and re-investment pays off he will be gone. Or the fans will turn on him because results are poor even though he's been given no resources to achieve promotion.

The season ticket prices couldn’t have come at worse time… especially because of some our recent performances don’t really justify it…. The only sliver lining I’m taking from it, (and I’m really hoping) the price increase is a way raise revenue to reinvest into our club this summer and have a massive go at getting promoted!

 

[FatFrank]

I don't believe a lot of people are wanting to throw the baby out with the bath water but boiling down to individual match performances, Saturday was by-far the worst performance under Carrick.

Regardless of tactical failures, the team lacked a leader, or leaders on the pitch. VDB seemed to be trying his best but there was a lack of energy, a lack of desire to win loose balls and a lack of creativity to change up the dynamic of the game.

I was convinced we would come out all guns blazing on Saturday and win comfortably. Plymouth weren't in a great vein of form.

 

[MichaelDebeve]

The season ticket prices couldn’t have come at worse time… especially because of some our recent performances don’t really justify it…. The only sliver lining I’m taking from it, (and I’m really hoping) the price increase is a way raise revenue to reinvest into our club this summer and have a massive go at getting promoted!

Unfortunately the increase in ST prices wont touch the sides in the overall picture of the club.

Thats why I struggle to understand the need for it.

For example, £100 increase on 20,000 tickets, still only brings in an extra £2million

 

[B_G]

The season ticket prices couldn’t have come at worse time… especially because of some our recent performances don’t really justify it…. The only sliver lining I’m taking from it, (and I’m really hoping) the price increase is a way raise revenue to reinvest into our club this summer and have a massive go at getting promoted!

The extra £30 generates an extra £660k based on 22k STs. It's a drop in the ocean and will make no difference to our summer spending. It wouldn't even cover the cost of a player like Gilbert's contract.

We are pretty much guaranteed to have less ST sales than last season due to performance and price increase so ST revenue is actually likely to decrease.

If we have extra money to spend in the summer it's down to player sales not because ST holders are paying an extra £30

 

[SmoggyRambo]

Unfortunately the increase in ST prices wont touch the sides in the overall picture of the club.

Thats why I struggle to understand the need for it.

For example, £100 increase on 20,000 tickets, still only brings in an extra £2million

it’s a strange one, but I really don’t understand how the clubs purchase especially in the championship are affected by FFP, does the extra revenue push us into some other kind of category. If we add up sales of players and merchandise etc. We know Gibbo in the past has tightened purse strings over a number years due to FFP, on the understanding that we’d go out and spend on a new squad, if I remember rightly that was Mowbray to Karanka

 

[MichaelDebeve]

it’s a strange one, but I really don’t understand how the clubs purchase especially in the championship are affected by FFP, does the extra revenue push us into some other kind of category. If we add up sales of players and merchandise etc. We know Gibbo in the past has tightened purse strings over a number years due to FFP, on the understanding that we’d go out and spend on a new squad, if I remember rightly that was Mowbray to Karanka

You're asking the wrong man mate - Thats the most serious post I have ever put on here I think!

 

[Nano]

The season ticket prices couldn’t have come at worse time… especially because of some our recent performances don’t really justify it…. The only sliver lining I’m taking from it, (and I’m really hoping) the price increase is a way raise revenue to reinvest into our club this summer and have a massive go at getting promoted!

I was talking about last season. The plans to get stop loaning PL players and develop our own will have been in place when season ticket prices were set. There was a chance of promotion and we were playing well so it made the price rises seem acceptable but with hindsight it was taking advantage of that situation to get cash off people before pulling the rug away and leaving us with a mediocre, midtable championship squad.

This season it is just stupid because we already know we have a crap squad and we can be fairly certain that we're not going to spend what is needed to get us competitive. We're going to continue the development project. They've mentioned plenty of times about us having a strategy so that's it until it magically all comes good.

 

[SmoggyRambo]

I was talking about last season. The plans to get stop loaning PL players and develop our own will have been in place when season ticket prices were set. There was a chance of promotion and we were playing well so it made the price rises seem acceptable but with hindsight it was taking advantage of that situation to get cash off people before pulling the rug away and leaving us with a mediocre, midtable championship squad.

This season it is just stupid because we already know we have a crap squad and we can be fairly certain that we're not going to spend what is needed to get us competitive. We're going to continue the development project. They've mentioned plenty of times about us having a strategy so that's it until it magically all comes good.

What are they spending the cash on? Is it corporate robbery? Are we massively in a hole paying off debt? Or is going back into the club to make it better?

 

[Nano]

What are they spending the cash on? Is it corporate robbery? Are we massively in a hole paying off debt? Or is going back into the club to make it better?

Past mistakes, poor planning, narrow financial models, retail and marketing incompetence, and penny pinching.

 

[Jonny Ingbar]

I'm pretty relaxed about the current situation, albeit obviously disappointed at how the season hasn't really got going.

But then I half expected a season that struggled to live up to last year, it was always an incredibly difficult ask to put a team out that was anywhere near as good as last season's.

Genuine question to those who feel mistakes have been made; where do you think the club have got things wrong?

 

[MichaelDebeve]

I'm pretty relaxed about the current situation, albeit obviously disappointed at how the season hasn't really got going.

But then I half expected a season that struggled to live up to last year, it was always an incredibly difficult ask to put a team out that was anywhere near as good as last season's.

Genuine question to those who feel mistakes have been made; where do you think the club have got things wrong?

Garry Monk

 

[SmoggyRambo]

I'm pretty relaxed about the current situation, albeit obviously disappointed at how the season hasn't really got going.

But then I half expected a season that struggled to live up to last year, it was always an incredibly difficult ask to put a team out that was anywhere near as good as last season's.

Genuine question to those who feel mistakes have been made; where do you think the club have got things wrong?

The gates were closed and we were desperate and lucky, we’ve been breastfed Gibbo/Bulkhaul money from a local investor/fan… the goalposts changed with FFP and we’ve struggled to adapt, we never really solved the problems of the 80s and earlier, we just delayed them!

 

[Jonny Ingbar]

The gates were closed and we were desperate and lucky, we’ve been breastfed Gibbo/Bulkhaul money from a local investor/fan… the goalposts changed with FFP and we’ve struggled to adapt, we never really solved the problems of the 80s and earlier, we just delayed them!

I was thinking more this season ie have mistakes led to our current position.

I think there have been some obvious misteps over the last decade or so, together with some good choices.

I do feel like the current setup is cohesive and more structuted than I can remember

 

[Nano]

I'm pretty relaxed about the current situation, albeit obviously disappointed at how the season hasn't really got going.

But then I half expected a season that struggled to live up to last year, it was always an incredibly difficult ask to put a team out that was anywhere near as good as last season's.

Genuine question to those who feel mistakes have been made; where do you think the club have got things wrong?

I think the biggest issue is that we haven't kept up. In the 90s we were pioneers. We got a new stadium, invested heavily in foreign players and we had an edge. For the last 20 years though we've mostly stood still while everyone caught up and overtook us. It's almost like we haven't become professional and we're still trying to be a wheeler dealer type of organisation where we are just waiting for things to click into place where other teams have invested heavily in things like scouting/recruitment/analytics/coaching/science. We're still signing coaches because they are former players. Seems like if you know Gibson he'll sort you out with a job whether you are good enough or not. The world of football has moved on. We've not necessarily got worse but we're up against other organisations that are just better than us.

The bigger clubs are retail/marketing/branding/data/analytics experts. We seem to cut costs instead of maximising value. That's in the areas we can see so I can only assume it is happening in the areas we can't see as well. If businesses don't stay with the times they get taken down by competitors. Football clubs are lucky that fans a re fans and not customers so they will always retain some.