"No overall control"

FabioPorkpie said:
I read that a bad night for the Tories would be 400+ losses, and a decent night for Labour would be 250+ gains.

I’m not very clued up on local elections, but I believe people vote differently to a GE, and will vote for who they actually want in council, rather than who they need to vote for in order to get a party out, ie the Tories. So many will still vote Lib Dem or Green etc when they wouldn’t necessarily in a GE because it would be a wasted vote.
If, as some places are predicting, the Tories now lose 500 council seats, then it’s definitely a worse night than they were predicting, no matter how they try to paint it. Over the weekend they will focus on the West Midlands and Teesside mayor results as they come in, as they are likely going to be wins for them (Street and Houchen… Urghh) They’ll try and move on from the council losses and paint it as some sort of Tory victory claiming people do still believe in them, but they’ll struggle to shift the narrative if they really do lose on the order of 500.

After the weekend, there will probably be alsorts of manoeuvres by various twisted weirdos like Baddenoch to try and challenge Sunak for the leadership. I’m hoping that he throws a strop and calls a GE out of spite to those who he feels have constantly undermined him.
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You are right local elections so follow different patterns to general.

There are 3 main differences.

Turnout. Tends to be low in locals. 30% isn't unusual.

Protest votes. Some party supporters use the locals to protest their party, particularly if they are in power.

Thirdly. People do use their vote for local issues and select a candidate that has an agenda that matches your own.

Tories will try to spin the losses as mid term blues, despite 14 years of government.
 
h_m_boro said:
Please......you're twisting everything I've said. I'm not saying ALL politicians are self serving - they are not. Including Tories.

And point me where I said I had a feeling they are ALL corrupt - my point being POWER corrupts, it's a sad trait of many humans. From councillor to PM level.

I've said Labour will not stoop to the levels of corruption of the current crop of Tories. But if, say 400 Labour MPs are elected you don't think one, two, five will have their heads turned with £££££ ? Let's see in 5 years.

Starmer, so far, has been very, very safe -beige almost - with his attacks on the Tories. My big hope he's keeping his powder dry until he gets in No 10. However, does he have the balls to start to go up against the establishment? I have my doubts.

I absolutely, categorically hope Labour are elected on a landslide, get into No 10, are squeaky clean and 100% transparent in everything they do. Drain the swamp. Make the people believe in the integrity and honesty of politicians. Hand on heart, reckon this will happen?
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As Cardiff said perhaps your initial post was clumsily worded.

I am not trying to make you sound like a Tory sympathiser. I am pointing out that words matter.
 
Laughing said:
As Cardiff said perhaps your initial post was clumsily worded.

I am not trying to make you sound like a Tory sympathiser. I am pointing out that words matter.
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And that's fair enough👍

Would have been too much being labelled a Tory synthesizer 😉
 
Believe it or not, in Thailand we used to have some of the most corrupt leaders.
Thai people come out to oppose But that leader roused the other people to oppose that group.
He used the word democracy as an excuse. And the poor people Then, hoping to become richer according to that leader's words, he followed him without questioning.
And there are other political parties that use the same method, which is to promise to give here and there. And then got the votes But today poor people are still as poor as before.
I can only hope that Thai democracy It will stop being used as a tool for the corrupt.
 
h_m_boro said:
Please......you're twisting everything I've said. I'm not saying ALL politicians are self serving - they are not. Including Tories.

And point me where I said I had a feeling they are ALL corrupt - my point being POWER corrupts, it's a sad trait of many humans. From councillor to PM level.

I've said Labour will not stoop to the levels of corruption of the current crop of Tories. But if, say 400 Labour MPs are elected you don't think one, two, five will have their heads turned with £££££ ? Let's see in 5 years.

Starmer, so far, has been very, very safe -beige almost - with his attacks on the Tories. My big hope he's keeping his powder dry until he gets in No 10. However, does he have the balls to start to go up against the establishment? I have my doubts.

I absolutely, categorically hope Labour are elected on a landslide, get into No 10, are squeaky clean and 100% transparent in everything they do. Drain the swamp. Make the people believe in the integrity and honesty of politicians. Hand on heart, reckon this will happen?
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h_m_b,

You've captured my thoughts, and word crafted it better than I would have done.

I didn't vote yesterday, and won't be voting in the GE. Why? Because nothing will change. It never does, whether the ruling party gets another term, or they're unceremoniously booted out, we'll still have a cost of living problem, higher mortgages, food banks, strikes for more pay, energy crises, promise more police, more hospitals, more doctors, et al. It's just pure theatre for me, we live in hope but it's the hope that is the killer.

#UTB
 
Historically things improve under labour governments in very real, observable and measurable ways EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Is the next labour government going to stick it to the establishment ? No.
Is it going to drastically rip up and change the broken system ? Nope.
Is it going to get even close to the levels of change that I personally would like to see ? Absolutely not.

But I do expect it to make improvements that will ultimately help people, and if I can't vote for the change I really want, I will still vote for whatever change and improvement I CAN get.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
This isn't what they announced though?
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I'm being a little facetious but come on... what they announced is they're having secret meetings with business leaders to "finesse" the policies. You don't need to be Mystic Meg to figure out what comes next. :rolleyes:

I disagree with that tweet that there's some sort of inevitability to policies always being watered down. Tbh I think that's quite a weird position to take at this point in the UK. Brexit went from watered down promises during the referendum to a hard as possible "f*ck business" government action.
 
Watching the tories try to spin this, whilst looking like puking, during the night was fun. Looks like circa 500 seats lost (50% of their seats contested). Smashed in the one by-election. Pinning their hopes on Houchen & Street to paint a rosy picture - 2 fellas who spent all their time distancing themselves from Westminster ('nowt to do with me Guv).

Unfortunately I believe Houchen will win - but lets see what the swing is. Apply that to Clarke, Young etc and see what that does to their majorities. It may well make interesting reading.
 
m3t4tr0n said:
Historically things improve under labour governments in very real, observable and measurable ways EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Is the next labour government going to stick it to the establishment ? No.
Is it going to drastically rip up and change the broken system ? Nope.
Is it going to get even close to the levels of change that I personally would like to see ? Absolutely not.

But I do expect it to make improvements that will ultimately help people, and if I can't vote for the change I really want, I will still vote for whatever change and improvement I CAN get.
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Spot on. Posted yesterday about metrics.

Pick anything you like 2010 (after long term Labour Govt) vs 2024 (Tories for 14 years). Its one way traffic. Hence woke this, blob that, deep state the other. Its all they've got - bull****
 
m3t4tr0n said:
Historically things improve under labour governments in very real, observable and measurable ways EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Is the next labour government going to stick it to the establishment ? No.
Is it going to drastically rip up and change the broken system ? Nope.
Is it going to get even close to the levels of change that I personally would like to see ? Absolutely not.

But I do expect it to make improvements that will ultimately help people, and if I can't vote for the change I really want, I will still vote for whatever change and improvement I CAN get.
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Spot on.
 
Alan_Breck said:
h_m_b,

You've captured my thoughts, and word crafted it better than I would have done.

I didn't vote yesterday, and won't be voting in the GE. Why? Because nothing will change. It never does, whether the ruling party gets another term, or they're unceremoniously booted out, we'll still have a cost of living problem, higher mortgages, food banks, strikes for more pay, energy crises, promise more police, more hospitals, more doctors, et al. It's just pure theatre for me, we live in hope but it's the hope that is the killer.

#UTB
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I think you've just proven the point that HMB could have worded it better.

I don't think he's saying its pointless voting for Labour at all.

Your viewpoint, one you're entitled to of course, is exactly the viewpoint the tories want voters to have. Give up and let them carry on.

Just be mindful of that when you choose to stand back and let them carry on dragging the country to the gutter.

Labour may or may not be "much" better. But I'm 100% sure they will be an improvement, the bar is that low.

And in any case I want to find out because the the thought of 5 more years of the most right wing party the country has ever had in government is chilling.
 
h_m_boro said:
Please......you're twisting everything I've said. I'm not saying ALL politicians are self serving - they are not. Including Tories.

And point me where I said I had a feeling they are ALL corrupt - my point being POWER corrupts, it's a sad trait of many humans. From councillor to PM level.

I've said Labour will not stoop to the levels of corruption of the current crop of Tories. But if, say 400 Labour MPs are elected you don't think one, two, five will have their heads turned with £££££ ? Let's see in 5 years.

Starmer, so far, has been very, very safe -beige almost - with his attacks on the Tories. My big hope he's keeping his powder dry until he gets in No 10. However, does he have the balls to start to go up against the establishment? I have my doubts.

I absolutely, categorically hope Labour are elected on a landslide, get into No 10, are squeaky clean and 100% transparent in everything they do. Drain the swamp. Make the people believe in the integrity and honesty of politicians. Hand on heart, reckon this will happen?
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100%. Once any party has been in too long there seems to be more and more corruption, questionable 'donations', expenses, wining, dining & schmoozing.
 
SuperStu said:
I'm being a little facetious but come on... what they announced is they're having secret meetings with business leaders to "finesse" the policies. You don't need to be Mystic Meg to figure out what comes next. :rolleyes:

I disagree with that tweet that there's some sort of inevitability to policies always being watered down. Tbh I think that's quite a weird position to take at this point in the UK. Brexit went from watered down promises during the referendum to a hard as possible "f*ck business" government action.
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But Brexit has been watered down in it's actual implementation.

We don't check goods on our own borders, we mimic EU regulation and we follow EU law in Northern Ireland.

Brexit is an illustrative example because it was initially implemented in as hard a way possible and it's now a complete bust. A terrible example for policymaking.

You don't have to do everything at a hundred miles an hour, especially when the bond markets have shown their ability to unseat PMs. We can all agree how awful that is - but that is unfortunately the world as it exists and you can't overturn it on day one.

Thatcher made peace with striking public sector workers in her first year in office - she was radical later on.
 
Labour taking back HBC means Ben's Hartlepool Development Corporation likely has less power to start selling council assets - unless he very publicly overrides them (like he did in Middlesbrough.)
 
Legz said:
So I've been up since 4 and watching some results come in....quite a few seem to be no overall control...what does this even mean??
I mean yeah it means Tories have lost seats....but it also means they haven't been whitewashed out of the picture by Labour.
Is this what Sky were reporting earlier in the week that the general public use these local elections to warn the ruling party to sort themselves out before the next election??
Or is it the general.public want the change but are worried/still not convinced by Starmer and Labour??
Or is it, again a report done by Sky news last week, that the general public are sick of politicians in general....they promise all things to get into power then change their minds....the opinion that they've "fortgot" they actually work for us not for themselves. And the amount of scandals etc on all sides
By sleep deprived brain is working overtime lol x
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I can't remember the reason but some local authorities have an election every year but for 1/3 of the councillors who then go on to serve a 3 year term (is it the old two tier areas with Countys & Town/District councils?) So you can get a landslide in one year but it only shifts the needle from one party to 'no overall control' rather than one to the other.
 
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